Sunday, September 30, 2007

Responses, responses

I'd just like to thank everyone for reading my previous post. I'm very grateful for all the kind things everyone had to say.. Here's a few responses to some of the comments my rant has received on this blog.

“Good luck. Since you got personally closer to individual "truthers" it's possible you may suffer personal attacks. And not just from those you know, but from "friends of friends".”

“Also, I know you've opened yourself to extraordinary malicious attacking by these people. That's a brave thing to do, considering the immaturity of their anger. I don't envy your position. Good luck.”

I’m really hoping that it won’t come to that. I have no plans to bring personal issues into the fray. (Well, except for responses to people I know who bring up personal issues. I mean, these guys are still my friends, I even live with one of them. Although, I am upset that some of my friends dragged me into this, I know it’s not their fault; They’ve been misled, also. I’m hoping I can show them the light.

“Sorry. Not good enough.
I had family in the towers both times they were bombed.
My brother in one of the firefighters you see staggering out of those clouds of toxic dust.
My sister had to walk through a pitch black subway tunnel for a quarter mile from the Nassau Street station.
It's going to take more than an 'oops' blog post to make up for the fact that you spent a year spreading lies about them and what happened that day.
I hope you'll put as much effort into publicly countering your lies as you did in telling them.”

I am truly sorry that my actions as a “truther” deeply upset you. It was never my intent to spread lies about what happened on 9/11. Like all truthers, I truly believed I was doing the victims a favor by asking those questions. But, I was wrong to do so without doing my own research. I cannot imagine the torment caused to a family member of a Flight 93 victim, for instance, trying to be told that it was shot down or there was no plane to begin with. It’s completely wrong to try to downplay the heroism of these victims, by saying that “boxcutters are a joke” or the “let’s roll” remark was just a govt. psy-op to invoke patriotism.

As far as putting more effort toward “countering my lies,” I’m really torn. As mentioned earlier, those guys are still my friends and I just can’t picture myself following them around and discrediting them as they’re handing out their pamphlets. My hope is to attempt to show them the light, but some of them are so invested into it, I’m not expecting too much. For now, I’m going to try and stay consistent with this blog to take down the real culprits—the heads of the movement who are lying.

“did it occur to you that there are more than 2 sides to an argument? considering your new "conservative" point of view, maybe not. could it be that all of the conspiracy nut cases are wrong, and also, the war is wrong? is there any chance that might be true? i've better things to do than look through your history, but considering your "new stance" i'd be real surprised if that was not your stance all along, and this is just another flight of fancy.”

I have not turned into an ultra-conservative, it was simply a theoretical response I may get from friends. I still believe the war was fought under false pretenses. It may be a bit of a stretch, but let me try to relate the Iraq War with 9/11 Truth.

Truthers will readily admit now that Loose Change is garbage, and instead point you to other documentaries. Even the Loose Change guys admit this by totally retracting “facts” such as their airphones from their latest edition of the “truth.” Now, this is a raw number, but I’d say 3/4ths of truthers became truthers because of Loose Change, specifically. Believing all the hype in controlled demolition and CIA phone calls from the planes caused them to take action. But now these claims have been thoroughly debunked, what do they do? They find “new” evidence as to why they should keep fighting.

Don’t know if that logic’s really solid, but I’m working on it.. Just want to move on at this point.

“not even debunkers can explain all the dozen foreign intelligence warnings, the august 6th pdb, or the ISI connection. That my friend, is the irrefutable truth.
You have wronged yourself. The movement is not supposed to teach you or guide you to what is disinfo/misinfo. If you haven't learned the truth; rather, have now ran away from it, it's your own fault.

And that has nothing to do with controlled demolitions on 9/11; you chose to make it the main subject.”

In my original rant, I stated that there were some inconsistencies in the official story that couldn’t be disproven (or haven’t been disproven yet). Unfortunately for the truthers, whom are mostly in the MIHOP camp, these inconsistencies lean more toward LIHOP. It’s some research I’ve yet to do, but look forward to doing so in the future. And the 9/11 Truth Movement has EVERYTHING to do with the controlled demolition theory. Especially in the case of Building 7, this is the “smoking gun” that truthers point to and the subject matter of the most popular truther movies. How many truthers do you know simply point out the warnings and other “solid stuff” when soliciting people with the “truth?” Maybe some food for thought on how you guys can be a more truthful movement.

Mark Roberts said...

Thanks for posting this, Mike. As was said above, it takes courage to say "I was fooled." You're an honorable guy.

I've had over a hundred people email me thanking me for making information available that helped them examine the 9/11 truth movement's claims. At the JREF forum where I post, several debunkers are former 9/11 conspiracy believers. I think you'll find that there's a lot more rationality and research on this "side of the fence."

Keep thinking for yourself.”

Thank you, Mark. I apologize for not giving you the proper thanks you deserve for my change in thinking. Your debate with Alex Jones at Ground Zero on 9/11/06 was very eye opening in exposing Jones for the fraud he is. He could not answer your questions, and only responded with very childlike responses, such as yelling out “strawman,” incorrectly might I add, and accusing you of being a govt. agent.

Why suddenly stop at these two movies that debunk the truth movement? If you do even MORE research you'll find there actually ARE a ton of engineers and fireman who have come out on the issue. They are not all complicit, many either have gag-orders on them (the firemen) or are afraid of possibly losing their jobs. These hit pieces have removed your common sense.

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This guy’s always been ripped to shreds in the comments. I would just like to clarify that it was not these two movies alone that changed my mind. I spent a month and a half in between “Screw Loose Change” and “Screw 9/11 Mysteries” in looking at the argument from my unique perspective of having been on “both sides of the fence.” I’ll admit whole-heartedly that I never did my own research as a truther. I was fortunate (or unfortunate, I guess) enough to have friends who were doing their own research and telling me their findings.

I was so emotionally struck by “Martial Law” and “9/11 Mysteries,” that I readily accepted anything else on the subject as fact, especially since I was getting the info from trusted friends. I’m going out on a limb here, but my guess is that this is same story for the overwhelming majority of truthers. How many of them do you think actually read the 9/11 Commission or NIST reports? If that were the case, you’d hear a lot more than the typical “parroting” found in the movement. Like maybe people thinking and speaking for themselves perhaps.

“I've watched both of them (at the insistence of a many individuals both within and without the "9/11 Truth movement") much more than once, and hey - let others watch for themselves, but the two documentaries, even together, make very little more than personal attacks on the people that created the original documentaries ("Loose Change" and "9/11 Mysteries," which, for your sake, I have not posted here).”

“Very little more than personal attacks?” Maybe, if you ignore that blatant misquoting of people, like the WTC construction guy in Mysteries, whose interview was completely chopped up to insinuate that he heard multiple explosions all at once. Or if you ignore that Mysteries’ whole demolition theory is completely debunked because A. their aspects of the WTC's controlled demolition are completely out of order and B. that chain of events wouldn’t take place over 90 minutes, but rather in 90 seconds like in ALL controlled demolitions. I could go on, like how 9/11 Mysteries falsely claimed that Silverstein was awarded $7 billion (and completely ignore his rent and rebuilding payments), but it’s obvious that you didn’t watch the same movies I did.

“Do you somehow not recognize that the "9/11 Truth movement" tries not to make claim to know what happened, that they merely have questions beyond what has been investigated, so far?...that the entire purpose of it's existence is to request a new investigation?”

Yeah, that’s why “9/11 was an inside job!” is the movement’s main slogan.

“Do you question the validity of victims asking questions of the crimes that were committed against them?”

Not at all. The loved ones of victims have every right to ask any question they wish. I have all the respect in the world for the Jersey Girls and how they fought for an investigation in the first place. But these are not the same people yelling “9/11 was an inside job.” Sure, I know the We Are Change kids parade around a couple of family members, but I think that’s a matter of playing on these poor victim’s emotions, giving them a false sense of hope that there will be justice since no one was held accountable by the 9/11 Commission Report. Nonetheless, the victims’ families are not leading the movement. The last I checked Jones (both of ‘em), Avery, Bermas, Fetzer, and whoever else you want to add to that list did not know any victims.

Alright, that’s it for now. I would like to thank everyone for their thanks/fuckyou’s. I never intended this rant to go as viral as it has. I have two more responses, one for Mr. Avery and one for my fellow 9/11 Truth UAlbany co-founder Noah P. Tefft on the way.

30 comments:

Minadin said...

Hey Mike.

With regard to:

"Sure, I know the We Are Change kids parade around a couple of family members,"

IF you're talking about Sabrina, she's not in fact a family member of a victim, though she makes that claim, loudly. She's the ex-girlfriend of Dan Wallace, who you may know, whose father was one of the firefighters who passed away in the collapse of the towers. Dan, unfortunately, has also passed away.

Dan's uncle posts on the JREF forums, details here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=93293

Anonymous said...

You say:

"I’ll admit whole-heartedly that I never did my own research as a truther."

Wait just a minute here... It's supposed to be some sort of huge revelatory experience that the "9-11 truth movement" is a crock just because you never properly did your research in the first place, took hearsay at face value while smoking too much pot, and now you feel like you "wasted a year of your life" and can conclude that the movement is 100% bogus?

You don't now have, nor did you ever have the credentials to reject the 9-11 truth movement because you never did your homework in the first place.

Let me contrast my own experience with yours:

I'm a professional who lives in New York City, and I wasn't a pot smoking teenager when I woke up that morning and witnessed the whole thing with my own eyes - I was a 100% sane and lucid critical thinker, age 26, who thought something was very wrong with the whole event starting the day after.

Not because of one movie called "Loose Change," mind you, but because of how George W. Bush spoke in his address to the country the following night (I believe it was the following night - you attack dogs are quick to jump on someone for getting a small detail wrong and avoiding the larger issues)... I remember sitting in a bar with a lot of Columbia University frat boys, and when GWB made his famous, "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists" I audibly moaned.... I was having none of it. ...the way he and the media were so quick to point the finger at Bin Laden, with no evidence presented whatsoever, no investigation even started.... come on! You can't say "this attack had Bin Laden written all over it" on one hand, and then say "we could never have imagined planes would be used as missiles." It is confirmed fact that the government lied about their level of foreknowledge about the types of threats the US faced. On top of all that, the absurd echo chamber of Fox News beginning the lead up to the Iraq War by trying to put "9-11" and "Saddam Hussein" in the same sentence, over and over...

None of it "felt right." If you weren't old enough to live through that time, especially as a resident of Manhattan, then you're not as qualified to have an opinion. It's a joke that you admit you never did any of your own research and smoked weed the whole time.

From September 12th until after the Iraq War started, I spent no less than 4 hours a day researching the events and after effects of that day. There were no internet videos, youtube didn't even exist. I read mainstream and alternative news sources. I even PAID to download archived news stories which were no longer free. I spoke with people who were there.

The evening of September 11th, before they blocked off everything below 14th Street unless you could prove you worked or lived down there, I stayed at an apartment just 20 blocks away from the destruction, with friends whose apartment was destroyed when the towers collapsed because it was so close. They never saw their belongings again. They ran for their lives after the second plane hit and burning debris started landing on their deck. Perhaps it was their deck on which one of the terrorist's passports landed!

I was there, I was sober, and I did the research from primary and secondary sources, not forums filled with what you call "twoofers" and "truthers" who don't know what they're talking about and have no credentials or skills to even be in the discussion in the first place.

Not only that, I have an extensive science background, and at the risk of being ridiculed for saying it (which at this point I don't care) I have an I.Q. in the high 140's to low 150's. I see just as much stupidity on both sides of the argument.

With all of that said, there are two fundamental points of view which are unlikely to ever change in my mind until solid evidence to the contrary emerges:

1. The U.S. government has buried the evidence and lied extensively about the causes of 9-11, and did not even come close to fully investigating 9-11. If anyone believes the government has a reason to tell the masses the truth about anything that happens in this world, then your naivete is astounding.

2. 19 half-wit arab tourists could not have pulled off "operation 9-11."

I leave you with a quote from this Time magazine article by a former CIA agent: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1692518,00.html?imw=Y

"I spent a career in the CIA trying to orchestrate plots, wasn't all that good at it, and certainly couldn't carry off 9/11. Nor could the real pros I had the pleasure to work with."

Think about that incredible statement from an employee of an organization with at least a 30 billion dollar per year budget. He believes that the CIA could not have pulled off 9-11, and yet we are to believe that Bin Laden from his cave, and 19 arabs with poor flying skills could have?

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