Sunday, September 30, 2007

To Noah P. Tefft, cofounder 9/11 Truth UAlbany

Noah P. Tefft said...

Wow, this is quite surprising Mike. In only 48 hours your words are all over the Internet. I am receiving calls and emails asking about you. As a person who also co-founded 9/11 Truth UAlbany with you and someone who also would consider himself a friend of yours, I was shocked that you wrote this.


Hey Noah, nice to finally hear from you. I’m glad you would consider yourself a friend of mine, but last I checked, friends don’t just move across the country without telling anyone. I left you voicemail after voicemail, the later ones just asking if you were all right, but no response until now. I used to jokingly tell Nancy Machold, head of the volunteer office that authorized the college credits we were offering, that you were my top pupil. Well, it genuinely hurt me when you bounced like that.


I felt like a failure as any type of leader. This was just one instance of my constant self-loathing while involved in 9/11 Truth. I don’t think it was just me, either. Since you left, so many other people did too. Always still believing in the movement, just leaving for whatever reason. Glad to know you’re still breathing air. My last memory of you involves you critiquing me for taking shitty pictures on your camera, taking a shot at me for being short.


My question for you is where do you stand now? Do you still support a new investigation? Do you now believe that 19 muslims with box cutters did this? Do you believe everything that you see on TV and in movies? Are you physically capable of forming your OWN opinion? You have me quite confused.

Why is it so hard to believe that 19 hijackers with box cutters did this? What proof did we ever have that says these people didn’t exist, besides long-debunked reports that they were turning up alive?

I don’t believe controlled demolitions are involved. I don’t believe a missile hit the Pentagon. (see pic below) I do believe there was a plane in Shanksville. I don’t believe Larry Silverstein walked away with $4.6 billion for himself. I don’t believe that the FDNY Commissioner told Silverstein that the FDNY was going to “pull” Building 7. I don’t believe that CNN and the BBC had a script. I don’t believe the fact that 19 hijackers with boxcutters did this is so unbelievable.

http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/jpg/size600/P200045-1.jpg”>

Exh. GX-P200045 (intr'd: 04/11/2006)
Photograph of a body found inside the Pentagon after Flight 77 crashed into the building.

Released in Moussaoui Trial

Are these not the main points of the 9/11 Truth Movement? Demolitions, Building 7, Silverstein, Pentagon Missile, media complicity? I know there’s more, but it’s a bit misleading to sink people in by throwing out these outrageous theories that ignore science, logic, and the blackboxes of the planes, and only then present the “solid” stuff.


What really hurts me the most Mike, is to hear that you "wasted a year of your life". Does that mean that the friendships you made over that year were a waste too? I'd hate to think that. Was it a waste of time for us to work in solidarity with all of those other groups on campus too - The Greens, Killer Coke, Students for Workers Right, etc? Were those nights we hung out at my apartment drinking beers until sunrise discussing how we wanted to make the world a better place for everyone a waste too? If that is so Mike, then you my friend are the one who duped me into believing that you were an intelligent caring human being, capable of making his own decisions, and forming his own rational opinions.

You’re right. The “wasted a year of my life” tagline is not true. But I am a marketing major, so I knew that would get people’s attention. I’m very grateful of all the great people I’ve met and become friends with over the past year. The Albany truthers are a rare breed and I think the vast majority of truthers out there gave us a bad name.

You bring up all the other groups we worked with, but think of it this way: Think of all the time we wasted talking about wacky conspiracy theories on a national and international level, while all these groups were taking real action at the local level? I was on the New York Public Interest Research Group’s (NYPIRG) statewide board of directors before I was convinced to quit altogether because they didn’t tackle “real issues.” I really regret that.

I don’t, however, regret what we built at UAlbany. We were the real deal—truth seekers. I think it’s unfortunate that our guys have invested themselves in 9/11 truth so much. There are so many other issues that coincide with our Constitutional views which we could’ve been working on.


So you disagree with some of the stuff in Loose Change and 9/11 Mysteries - I do too, but that doesn't mean that it's all wrong either. It also doesn’t mean that they were trying to “dupe” you, or present lies to make movie sales.

But they are “duping” people. Both movies misquoted people not by accident, but by specifically clipping out things they said that didn’t match their theory. 9/11 Mysteries lied about Silverstein’s “7 billion dollar” payout. Why won’t any truther admit that Silverstein has had to pay $120 million per year rent just to keep the property? Why is profit motive so short-sighted that truthers don’t even ask the obvious question: Doesn’t he have to use that money to rebuild? It’s just “Larry Silverstein made $4.6 billion off of 9/11, period.”

This is just one example. Why can’t 9/11 Mysteries even keep its own story straight? First, it’s obviously an implosion because it fell in its own footprint, then it’s an explosion because debris went flying out due to all the bombs, and then within 10 minutes, they’re back to the implosion with the freefall stuff? The whole film builds up to their theory on the aspects of the demolition, but they’re all out of order and would only have been seconds apart, not the 90 minutes in the case of the WTC. You’d think they’d put in a little more research on how a controlled demolition actually works, but then maybe they wouldn’t have a movie to sell.

If you remember correctly, it was me who urged you all (SUNY Albany Truthers) to watch Screw Loose Change sometime last year. I said that in order to find the truth - whatever that may be - you need to look at every side of the story. You didn’t want to look into anything other than whatever your hero Alex Jones had to say. This movement isn’t “led” by anyone, and we all have different opinions as to what happened on 9/11. For you to blindly follow someone like Alex Jones without looking into both sides is irresponsible anyways. I have issues with the Truth Movement as well at times, and I do my best to address those issues in order to move forward – but throwing out blind attacks will get you nowhere.

I totally forgot you had made that suggestion until I read this. Noah, you were always my favorite truther. But honestly, how many people took your advice? How many people in the movement look outside the truther stuff? If you believe in the truther logic, you can’t look outside because everyone else is in on it.

I did blindly follow Alex Jones and I’m not ashamed to admit it. It was irresponsible and I apologize to you and every other member of our group. The guy is very charismatic, and I’m not the only one who has fallen for his charms. Noah, please don’t be so na├»ve as to believe that there are no leaders. Just look at the WeAreChange event on 9/11/07. I wasn’t there, but I heard about lots of elitism from the usual suspects. Alex Jones will never admit it outright, but come on, he always reminds everyone that he was the first to call it.


For the record, Bermas admitted he was wrong about "The firefighters being paid off", and he apologized as well - 2 years ago - http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/2006/12/message-from-jason-bermas.html

Why to you have such hatred for the Loose Change guys? I think you are hitting below the belt Mike, and that just doesn't seem like the Mikey Metz that I became friends with last year.

And Mike - was this really necessary? -
"Fuck you, fuck avery & bermas, fuck 9/11 mysteries, and fuck every true believer who goes out there and tells people that they've "done their research." "

Yeah, and instead of just admitting he was wrong, he blamed it on some “jedi mind trick.” Has Dylan apologized for his claims about boxcutters being a complete joke or “let’s roll” being some govt. psy-op to bolster patriotism? Here’s a video with select quotes from the creators. The world is awaiting their apologies.

Watch this whole thing and tell me who’s hitting below the belt: Me or the Loose Change guys?




Are you saying "fuck you" to me as well? I have done my own research as well, and I had been years before I had met you, and long before Loose Change had even been created. My research did not just consist of Infowars archives - it came from all types of sources, mainstream and underground. Shit Mike, I had already read the Debunking the 9/11 Myths put out by Popular Mechanics before YOU had even heard of Loose Change. I told you about 9/11 Myths a long time ago - It's not my fault you didn't want to look at other facts. Perhaps you should have spent less time yelling at traffic through bullhorns, and sat down and did some independent thinking and research.

Noah, you’re an exception. Like I said earlier, the guys we had in Albany are above the rest. A lot of them, like you, have done their research. I’m glad you have looked at the other side, but doesn’t it bother you how much you’ve been misled? Let me restate that, doesn’t it bother you how much your average Joe Truther is being misled? Do you really think all these truthers you see on myspace are looking at both sides?

If this were a real truth movement, why not shed light on the aspects of this theory that have been debunked? Why yell “9/11 was an inside job!” if you’re “just asking questions?” Why not address the 4.6% MIHOPer statistic from the latest poll and try to work on bringing the number up?


What the hell did Dylan and Jason ever do to you? - Oh right, they came out and spoke at our school twice, and they made TONS of money too - Oh wait, no they didn't, they didn't sell anything. They didn't charge us anything - In fact, they brought free copies of Loose Change for everyone who came.

First off, I don’t remember them coming twice. Can you refresh my memory of this second time that you and Dylan both speak of? And you’re right. They didn’t charge a speaking fee and they didn’t sell anything… that night. But what about the 50,000 copies they have sold? (which Dylan admits on the LCF) 50,000 copies x $20 = $1 million. I wonder how much they’ve made on t-shirts.

Couldn’t you see what they were doing? It’s a hard sell to put a price tag on the truth (just ask the WeAreChange kids), so with a video like that, they had to offer the truth for free. This made it spread virally, while making at least a cool mil in the process. Now, they have their names out there and 9/11 Truth groups (or Loose Change street teams, as I like to call them) spreading their message throughout the country.

What was this to lead to? None other than that nationwide theatrical release of Loose Change Final Cut, where truthers would have to pay $10 a ticket for their dose of truth. But we all know what happened with that. Now, they’ll settle for another quick million at least and probably update the “Investigate” shirts to make another buck.


Mike - you are certainly entitled to your own opinion, it is your right to do so. But placing blame on others for your lack of research is inexcusable. If your beliefs are so easily manipulated just by watching a movie or two, then you have real issues, and that would lead me to believe that you are incapable of thinking for yourself. I certainly hope that is untrue, because I always thought that you were a very intelligent person, capable of independent thinking. I’m not sure if you are just angry in general and looking for something or someone to lash out at – but doing so in a manner like this will inevitably get you nowhere.

Well I’m glad you put that “inevitably” in there because my little facebook post is now all over the web. Internet fame wasn’t in mind when I wrote it, just wanted it to reach SLC as a form of thanks. Hell, even you came out of the woodwork over it. I’ve actually been happier than ever since I quit smoking pot. No, I haven’t become a militant ex-smoker. Everyone’s entitled to do what they want, I just didn’t like who I was when I was high. I’m once again taking school seriously and am planning to graduate this December. So, look’s like I’m going somewhere come 2008.


I hope that you continue to search for the truth Mike. I urge you to look beyond dvds and websites either supporting or debunking 9/11 Truth – There is a much bigger picture than just that out there – and the truth is - We may never know what really happened on 9/11, not one of us on either side holds the key to unlocking the “Truth”. That my friend is for you to decide for yourself.

I wish you the best Mike.

Your Friend,
-Noah P. Tefft
Co-Founder 9/11 Truth UAlbany
Truther For Life

Thanks for this, Noah. I hope we can discuss this further in private some day.



Note: Corrected the fact that Silverstein has had to pay $120 million per year. Still waiting for similar corrections from the 9/11 Truth Movement.

61 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hey man, it's good that you got out of that Loose Change/Alex Jones rubbish.

There's another video on google(can't remember the name it might also be on the SLC page) of mark Roberts trying to debate Alex jones at ground zero, and pretty much all Jones fights back with is "Thats straw man" or "You see this guys? This is a guy working for the gov't"

I also suggest watching the debate of Mark Roberts against Avery and Bermas. He pretty much gets his points across while Bermas bumbles, and Avery hardly talks at all.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y7tMHMQ863Q

Theres the satrt of it. Theres multiple parts.

Firestone said...

"Why won’t any truther admit that Silverstein has had to pay $120 million per month rent just to keep the property?"

Just a nitpick: the $120 million was per year, not per month.

Regards

Anonymous said...

actually it is $102 million (for One, Two, Four and Five World Trade
Center) annually-with conditions.
http://pdftohtml.ganjalinux.org/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.panynj.gov%2FAboutthePortAuthority%2FInvestorRelations%2FAnnualReport%2Fpdfs%2F2001_Annual_Report.pdf&images=yeshttp://pdftohtml.ganjalinux.org/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.panynj.gov%2FAboutthePortAuthority%2FInvestorRelations%2FAnnualReport%2Fpdfs%2F2001_Annual_Report.pdf&images=yes

Since that agreement has been amended, it is stated that Silverstein pays $10 million per month.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Silverstein

I would expect further amendments over time........that's the nature of business.

Goodluck Mikey- keep doing your own research, because 9 times out of 10, human error and pure laziness is involved in 'mistruths.' But sadly, many are egocentric in their beliefs and will not allow another to dispel their illusions with hard facts.

Diane said...

Hi! First, some questions: When you were active in the 9/11 Truth movement, were your ideas about controlled demolition based solely or primarily on the videos you mentioned? Or did you ever look at Jim Hoffman's websites (911research.wtc7.net, wtc7.net, and 911review.com)? Did you ever look at the website of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth? Also, have you seen Kevin Ryan's critiques of the NIST report?

Unlike you, I did not get introduced to the 9/11 Truth movement via videos. Rather, what got me interested was overhearing, at an antiwar event, two men having a physics-literate debate about controlled demolition. A few weeks later, it occurred to me to wonder if there were any engineers who agreed with the idea that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition. So I searched the web and eventually came across the website of Architects and Engineera for 9/11 Truth, which in turn contained links to Jim Hoffman's sites. Jim Hoffman has a much more rigorous, careful approach than many people in the 9/11 Truth movement. I spent quite a bit of time studying his sitea and ALSO studying various "debunking" sites..

I did not rush to embrace even Jim Hoffman's ideas. I was very cautious because, a couple of years earlier, I had been quite repelled by an earlier encounter with the idea of 9/11 being an inside job. My earlier encounter had been with a website featuring obviously nutty ideas like no-planes video fakery and faked phone calls.

I agree that an awful lot of nonsense has been spread in the name of the 9/11 Truth movement. I have a lot of gripes about every "9/11 Truth" video I've seen so far. None of them, in my opinion, do a good job with the physical evidence issues. I have lots of other gripes about the 9/11 Truth movement too, which I've begun exploring on my own blog.

However, in my opinion, although the "debunkers" do have a lot of good points about the many errors in various videos, they have NOT adequately responded to better-informed presentations of the physical evidence, such as Jim Hoffman's.

If you have not yet looked at Jim Hoffman's sites, please do so before you conclude, once and for all, that the idea of controlled demolition of the WTC buildings is complete nonsense.

One other thing. You wrote: "If you believe in the truther logic, you can’t look outside because everyone else is in on it."

I, for one, certainly do not believe in such a ridiculously huge conspiracy. I do believe it's likely that the major mass media are, to some extent at least, controlled or at least heavily influenced by the CIA. But I don't think it's likely that any large number of people could have been knowingly in on anything so blatantly treasonous as either the 9/11 plot itself or the coverup.

Justin Miller said...

Diane, looking into what information there is on the background of Mr. Hoffman, his area of expertise is software engineering, which while being a good job to have, no doubt, and one that requires much education to achieve, it nevertheless is not the kind of engineer one would seek out to give expert testimony on a building collapse.

Even a Doctor of physics isn't necessarily the specialist best qualified, though their work is more closely related to the subject matter than Mr. Hoffman's.

No, the specialists you really want to explain these matters are civil and structural engineers. Forensic engineers with experience in structural engineering especially are trained to examine all kinds of building failures and their causes. these are the people we should be consulting, not just anyone with a PhD behind their names.

If you can find a group of these experts in these specific disciplines who are testifying to the veracity of the conspiracy claim, that it indeed wasn't the result of airliners crashing into them, please let us know. I have yet to hear of any such grouping.

Diane said...

Contrary to the claims of "debunkers" that no structural engineer agrees with the controlled demolition idea, some structural engineers have indeed joined Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Admittedly, not an awful lot of them (yet), but we'll see who else joins. The member list is published on their website.

You might be interested in the following article by a civil engineer who has worked on structural steel:

Why the towers fell: Two theories
By William Rice
http://www.vermontguardian.com/commentary/032007/TwinTowers.shtml

I'll post some further comments later. Gotta run now.

patrick cm said...

Sorry bro, but going to college is not really "going somewhere"

I suggest you think long and hard about what really matters in life.

Justin Miller said...

Interesting, he seems to ignore some elements others outside the profession have ignored.

The south tower did not collapse symmetrically in on itself. It collapsed unevenly on one side first. The core steel structure also stood for several seconds longer after the outer steel shell and interior flooring collapsed. It wasn't designed to stand alone without lateral floor support. He also neglects to say how much resistance one should expect from successive floor impacts that would slow, which can only be approximated using computer model.

Will the speed of descent be affected by the in-tact floors below? Yes. To what extent? Considering that with each successive collapse, there is more moving mass, and the next floor will not add any more proportional resistance to match the increase in moving inertia. The collapse was not at free fall speed, as can be demonstrated by the debris that is clearly falling around the towers well ahead of the propagating collapse. It wasn't far behind free-fall speeds, but without accurate and precise computer models to give an idea how much that lag should be, it's a moot point.

The north tower did collapse more concentrically simply because it sustained a more central hit. The plane that hit the south tower hit the tower eccentrically.

Anonymous said...

For fuck's sake, is everyone really this
gullible?

Check the date when this blog went up. Check how long it took for the JREF crew to pop up saying "Good job! Welcome to the debunker club".

This was planned a long time ago--and Noah should be going over the past looking for flags he missed. And, while he's at it, looking for flags where he's currently at...

Oi, Mikey!--do you get dental?

Diane said...

To Anonymous:

Not knowing Justin Miller personally, nor having worked for him, I have no way of knowing whether he's real or fake. But it's far from impossible that someone like him COULD actually exist.

The vast majority of Ameticans do not have good critical thinking skills or research skills. Thus, it's not at all implausible to me that someone could be drawn into the 9/11 Truth movement via a bunch of emotionally gripping but factually very flawed videos, then plunge into activism without bothering to do one's own research, then leap to the other side upon seeing another video which smashes a large portion of one's house of cards. So, whether or not Justin himself is for real, there will probably be other real people like him, as the 9/11 Truth movement gets more publicity and the "debunkers" get more publicity too. Hence I do think the 9/11 Truth movement should take his case as an object lesson in the need to (1) encourage people to think critically and do their own research and (2) be a lot more careful about what kinds of claims and evidence we put forward to the general public.

I see nothing odd about the quickness of response from the JREF crowd. If he introduced himself over there, it is only natural that some of them would respond.

Diane said...

To Justin Miller:

I'll reply later, perhaps tomorrow. In the meantime, you might be interested in my blog entry Pentagon no-757 theories: debunkings from within the 9/11 Truth movement.

Diane said...

Ooops!

To both Justin Miller and Mike:

Apologies to both of you. In my reply to "Anonymous," I confused Justing Miller with Mike.

Jay said...

Well Diane,

It looks like the Architects and engineers still have at least 750.000 engineers to convince of their "truth".

Only a handful of architects and engineers question the NIST Report, but they have never come up with an alternative. Although at first blush it may seem impressive that these people don't believe the NIST Report, remember that there are 123,000 members of ASCE(American Society of Civil Engineers) who do not question the NIST Report. There are also 80,000 members of AIA(American Institute of Architects) who do not question the NIST Report.

Although their field of expertise is not related to the construction of buildings - they don't seem to have a problem with that over at AE911truth - there are also 120,000 members of ASME(American Society of Mechanical Engineers) who do not question the NIST report. There are also 370,000 members of IEEE(Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) who do not question the NIST report. There are also 40,000 members of AIChE(American Institute of Chemical Engineers) who do not question the NIST Report. There are also 35,000 members of AIAA (American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics) who do not question the NIST report.

patrick cm said...

Jay please allow me to tell you whats up, in the words of Michael Crichton who is way smarter than both of us combined.

AHem.

"I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you're being had.

Let's be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

There is no such thing as consensus science. If it's consensus, it isn't science. If it's science, it isn't consensus. Period.

In addition, let me remind you that the track record of the consensus is nothing to be proud of. Let's review a few cases.

In past centuries, the greatest killer of women was fever following childbirth . One woman in six died of this fever. In 1795, Alexander Gordon of Aberdeen suggested that the fevers were infectious processes, and he was able to cure them. The consensus said no. In 1843, Oliver Wendell Holmes claimed puerperal fever was contagious, and presented compelling evidence. The consensus said no. In 1849, Semmelweiss demonstrated that sanitary techniques virtually eliminated puerperal fever in hospitals under his management. The consensus said he was a Jew, ignored him, and dismissed him from his post. There was in fact no agreement on puerperal fever until the start of the twentieth century. Thus the consensus took one hundred and twenty five years to arrive at the right conclusion despite the efforts of the prominent "skeptics" around the world, skeptics who were demeaned and ignored. And despite the constant ongoing deaths of women.

There is no shortage of other examples. In the 1920s in America, tens of thousands of people, mostly poor, were dying of a disease called pellagra. The consensus of scientists said it was infectious, and what was necessary was to find the "pellagra germ." The US government asked a brilliant young investigator, Dr. Joseph Goldberger, to find the cause. Goldberger concluded that diet was the crucial factor. The consensus remained wedded to the germ theory. Goldberger demonstrated that he could induce the disease through diet. He demonstrated that the disease was not infectious by injecting the blood of a pellagra patient into himself, and his assistant. They and other volunteers swabbed their noses with swabs from pellagra patients, and swallowed capsules containing scabs from pellagra rashes in what were called "Goldberger's filth parties." Nobody contracted pellagra. The consensus continued to disagree with him. There was, in addition, a social factor-southern States disliked the idea of poor diet as the cause, because it meant that social reform was required. They continued to deny it until the 1920s. Result-despite a twentieth century epidemic, the consensus took years to see the light.

Probably every schoolchild notices that South America and Africa seem to fit together rather snugly, and Alfred Wegener proposed, in 1912, that the continents had in fact drifted apart. The consensus sneered at continental drift for fifty years. The theory was most vigorously denied by the great names of geology-until 1961, when it began to seem as if the sea floors were spreading. The result: it took the consensus fifty years to acknowledge what any schoolchild sees.

And shall we go on? The examples can be multiplied endlessly. Jenner and smallpox, Pasteur and germ theory. Saccharine, margarine, repressed memory, fiber and colon cancer, hormone replacement therapy…the list of consensus errors goes on and on.

Finally, I would remind you to notice where the claim of consensus is invoked. Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way."

Anonymous said...

"diane said...

To Anonymous:

Not knowing Justin Miller personally, nor having worked for him, I have no way of knowing whether he's real or fake. But it's far from impossible that someone like him COULD actually exist."

No, not impossible, just very, very very, improbable. None of those SLC or JREF gits said anything about having met him on their sites-- no, "Oi! Mike! Finally came to see the blog--good job!"

But you just keep the faith, luv. And if you are right, and he was just sucked into it without critically thinking--who's to say he's not doing the same thing now?

Bluff and double bluff, is all this is. Playing silly buggers with our heads. But just keep swallowing the horse piss and telling yourself it's white wine...

Bill said...

So he's a fake or he isn't? He was paid off or he wasn't? The points he raises are valid or not?

Never underestimate the ability of the mind to defend it's own idealogical territory by denial and rationalization.

If looking at theories that oppose yours makes you angry, then there's something wrong - you've become too emotionally invested in it. Try and be honest with yourselves and look at the information dispassionately, before you resort to attacking the messenger.

orphia_nay said...

I just read your blog, and I want to add my congratulations to you upon your discovery.

It seems you weighed up hundreds of claims and accepted what is the truth based on merit, logic and actual evidence.

It was not a simple case of just changing your mind one day as some twoofers might like to think.

Well done for making your decision public. You have done more for the truth than the whole "Truth Movement" put together, although that's not saying much, hehehe, sorry :). Seriously, it was a pleasure reading your thoughts, and good luck in the future.

Jay said...

Diane, thats all nice, but the problem is with this kind of science, almost every engineer(that knows his stuff) can do the math themselves to see if there are any mistakes. So we got a couple of fruitcakes that never read the NIST report but keep bashing it anyway. In Science, you don't bash other papers and don't come up with an alternative. You actually have to bring forth a scientific paper with calculations to what happened according to them(like how many explosives were used, what kind, where were they placed) that refutes the original paper. The AE911truth site has nothing of the sort, so forgive me if i don't buy into their crap.

Pat said...

To those wondering how Screw Loose Change and JREF found out about Mikey's posts, it's pretty simple. He left a comment in one of our posts.

patrick cm said...

Jay you don't know what science is.

NIST was paid for by the government, we are accusing the government of being behind 9/11. Why would they (nist) point the finger at themselves (the government)

NIST doesn't even look at the possibility of a demolition. In real science we would look at different possibilities.

Abby Scott said...

Hello Mike,

Just wanted to put a note in here saying I understand your frustration.

I took a glance at the loosechangeforums thread of yours. And every time I hear or see Dylan Avery say, "Why don't you say it to my face!" I have to laugh.

He said some pretty lame things about me, but when he and I were in the same place (GZ 2006), instead of approaching me, he pointed cameras at me. When I approached him, he hemmed and hawed and didn't say much.

With regards to the money thing, yes, this is how he makes his living, and why he has multiple plasma screen televisions. The "we pass out free dvds!" thing is bogus. It's free publicity and he knows it. Who's shirts were truthers to wear on the anniversaries? Louder than Words brand. Also, there was quite a bit of hubbub at some point last year, when LTW hired a marketing guy to act as a moderator on the message board.

Now I've ranted and I'm all keyed up, but I just want you to know that I understand. But be careful, the more attention that you give them, the more you become that enemy they so desperately crave.

patrick cm said...

the money thing is fucking stupid. In comparison to the people who really profited off 9/11, the Truthers make nothing.

abby scot, stop being stupid, then I won't have to be a slave anymore.

Will said...

For the claim that there was advanced warning, my guess is that it's the same reply as the claim that there was advanced warning to the Pearl Harbour attacks. Basically, although these warnings existed, there were also thousands or millions of messages and reports and such, and you can't cherry pick that one that turned out to be true after the fact.

Kurt said...

The only person here who has their brain switched on is Diane. Thanks for lending some rationality to an otherwise ape-like social flea-picking.

Anonymous said...

Right, I'm going to believe a movement whos leaders can never back up their claims with any evidence and then just shrug it off with saying that debunkers are being paid off or are just bringing up straw man arguments.

When well over 90% of the engineers of the world don't support the CD theory, and even one of their members of AE911T said that the towers weren't brought down by explosives(Jowenko).

Face it. Dylan Avery and Co. are making mass amounts of cash from their "tributes" to the victims. It makes me want to puke.

patrick cm said...

Anonymous your ignorance of who is profitting of 9/11 makes me want to puke. And in science it doesn't matter if 90 percent say one thing because it only takes one single person like einstein to prove them wrong. Not that I'm comparing 9/11 truthers to einstein i think most truthers are retards.

And another thing who shruged off the evidence of weapons of mass destruction?

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