Thursday, January 3, 2008

Iowa Caucus

Well, Huckabee and Obama are the big winners tonight. Not much of a surprise, as it was a toss-up going in, but what was surprising were the margins of victory for these two. Right now, the Huckabee win is looking like a fluke, but Obama is starting to look like the next President of the United States. Time will tell, though.

Which brings me to Ron Paul. Okay, the guy broke the 10% mark. This is somewhat impressive, but the official Ex-Truther interpretation of this is that the 4.6% lunatic fringe joined up with about 5% of the marginally less lunatic fringe. I'd say a lot of Paul supporters are closet ex-truthers and people on the fringe who thought that the 9/11 stuff was just kooky, and this looks to be the case. I'm guessing Paul will probably perform similarly in the remainder of the primaries, before he takes his money and runs.

Ya gotta admire the dedication of the Paulites, but it's just not going to translate to votes from more fair-minded, centrist voters. The American people want change, but they certainly don't want a kook who wants to ditch the Board of Education and the IRS, with the baggage of his lunatic followers who expect a lot more nuttery out of the guy.

It may work for the truthers and John Birch right-wing types, and even the kids who think he's going to legalize drugs, but as the first official results show, "10% of Americans are completely retarded," to paraphrase Kyle from South Park.

128 comments:

patrick cm said...

big·ot
/–noun
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

what what?

Anonymous said...

I'm the same guy that commented on your 9/11 Troof = DOA post. I don't have an account on here and I don't want to publish my email address which is why I'm posting anon.

Anyway,

I have mixed feelings about Paul. His message has a lot of good in it, but it's nothing new. The Libertarian Party has been shouting this on deaf ears for years. You've got to be politically retarded or under the age of 20 to think anything he's saying is "revolutionary". Where were all these Paul supporters when Harry Browne ran in 2000, or Badnarik in '04? They had the exact same message and no one listened. Oh, but all of us unlightened, non-truthers are the "sheeple", right?

I digress . . .

I'm liking a lot of what Edwards and Obama have to say. Neither one of them are perfect by a long shot but I think they are the 2 best candidates in the race. I would love to see them team up.

My only worry about the Democrats this year is that they are going institute some form of government-sponsored health care (no matter which one of them wins, they are going to do this), and it will be a mess. I was a big supporter of it for a few years but the more I think about it the more I think the government can and will screw it up.

patrick cm said...

hey slave obama is a member of the cfr and edwards is bilderburg

IE. he doesn't care about you. ron paul does, but your "choice" lol

Anonymous said...

Oooooh CFR and Bilderberg, I'm so fucking scared. Get a life you tinfoil hat-wearing child. Contrary to what your malfunctioning brain is telling you, you are not more enlightened than the rest of us. I realize your age probably ends in -teen and/or you still live with your parents, so I'll cut you some slack, but if you still believe this shit when you grow up I urge you to seek mental health care.

patrick cm said...

wow, you must not have read tragedy and hope. otherwise you might not make a fool out of yourself.

Anonymous said...

Wow, what a great argument. I could sit here and name 3,000 books I've read that you haven't (I've read roughly 3 books per week for ~20 years) but it would mean precisely fuckall.

You 9/11 assholes constantly move the goalposts because not one of your arguments stands up to scrutiny. Not one.

So you get proven wrong over and over and over and each time, instead of re-examining your beliefs and conceding you might just be wrong about this whole thing, you just ignore that point and move on to something else. And it's a circle. When you've exhausted all your "theories" you go back to the first one and start all over. That's intellectual dishonesty.

Another one you slugs like to throw out, after all your lies have been dragged out in the open, is "hey, I'm just asking questions!"

Just asking questions! There's nothing wrong with asking questions, right? We should all be questioning everything!

Well, I've got a question for you: Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

patrick cm said...

My arguments can stand up to your scrutiny, just try me genius.

If you read tragedy and hope you'd realize that your wrong since everythign is admitted in the book, written by the people who did 9/11.

grenadavet said...

try reconciling the fact of Afghanistan being an occupied country that the Taliban had nearly eradicated opium and heroin production in and in the 6 years of coalition occupation,production is up to 90% of world output. That product is going to the populations of the coalition countries. Somebody is making a killing. Either it is the Taliban and Al-qaida or other terrrorists,as the leadership of the coalition countries would like you to believe, in which case the U.S. LED coalition is malfeasing by allowing the terrorists to profit,thereby perpetuating the war and occupation of the Middle East, or it is lining the pockets of someone else. Either way, by allowing production of the drugs the war,and therefore the ongoing occupation is perpetuated. Prosecuting those end consumers,especially under the guise of supporting terrorism by doing so,is at least seditious,if not downright treasonous. Militarily speaking, not denying the enemy the means to wage war is highly unsound strategy.This particular strategy comes straight from the White House and Pentagon.Who is ultimately responsible for it? Why,the Commander in Cheif, of course. So,once again,you,or any other non-truther,show me some critical thinking rather than the weak bleating I've heard so far. BTW, General Sherman,who set the standards for modern warfare by targeting the civilian infrastructure that supports the war making capability,is rolling in his tomb. With the capabilities we have today,Afghanistan being "a wild place" doesn't mean spit,not with satellites,Predators,Global Hawks,FAE bombs,MLRS and total air superiority. William Tecumseh would have burned every damned last poppy they grow. In a country less than the size of Texas that has lost 70% of it's forests over the last two decades,locating and eradicating the poppy fields (isn't a poppy bright red or orange? Should stand out well againt what is otherwise desert)should be a snap. Unless you don't really want to win the "war on drugs" and the "war on terror" and just want to occupy and abet drug production.


Let me correct myself. The ISAF is mandated by the UN Security Council,under NATO command,which is US led.This just makes the drug conspiracy truly international.

patrick cm said...

yes, what grenadavet said, he was in the military.

Eric said...

My arguments can stand up to your scrutiny, just try me genius.

This coming from a guy I've spanked around for the past 15 days?

Please.

Eric said...
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Eric said...
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Eric said...

Well, I was wrong Patrick! it was not you who produced one of the stupidest posts ever to grace an internet form it was instead grenadavet, but congrats on proving me right, you cannot think for yourself. but lets go over Grenadavet's assertions just like we did with your copy and paste tactics:

try reconciling the fact of Afghanistan being an occupied country that the Taliban had nearly eradicated opium and heroin production in and in the 6 years of coalition occupation,production is up to 90% of world output.

I think I already did, oh yes, I did. I'm a little amused at this line of questioning here, since all it shows is that there is a market for drugs. I'm unsure what you hope to accomplish here, perhaps you feel that the ritualized decapitations and the strict poverty that the Taliban inflicted upon those living under its brutal regime.


That product is going to the populations of the coalition countries.

Uh huh... Oh this is rich, is this going somewhere? I suppose some sort of horrible conspiracy I assume?


Somebody is making a killing.

Capitalism a work, I imagine you feel its the evil wicked government at work?


Either it is the Taliban and Al-qaida or other terrrorists

O rly?

as the leadership of the coalition countries would like you to believe,

I think the 'leadership' of the coalition countries point more to the fact that the rise in poppy production is being driven by capitalism. While no doubt some terrorist organizations are profitting from it, a lot of money is going to criminal elements as well. Remember that this is a country whose average income per year is about $186 ....


in which case the U.S. LED coalition is malfeasing by allowing the terrorists to profit,

Well considering that the first premise was incorrect this one would be as well. But according to you... we should simply bomb the snot out of those farmers, fuck em right?

I thought you were on the side of 'humanity'


thereby perpetuating the war and occupation of the Middle East,

o_O

Riiiight.... I dont really think you have any idea what is going in Afghanistan.


or it is lining the pockets of someone else.

I'm sure you have all the answers.

Either way, by allowing production of the drugs the war,and therefore the ongoing occupation is perpetuated. Prosecuting those end consumers,especially under the guise of supporting terrorism by doing so,is at least seditious,if not downright treasonous. Militarily speaking, not denying the enemy the means to wage war is highly unsound strategy.This particular strategy comes straight from the White House and Pentagon.Who is ultimately responsible for it? Why,the Commander in Cheif, of course. So,once again,you,or any other non-truther,show me some critical thinking rather than the weak bleating I've heard so far.

Well your entire supposition is wrong, and as such well, the only one doing the weak bleating is yourself here.


BTW, General Sherman,

Oh dear, invoking civil war generals now.


who set the standards for modern warfare by targeting the civilian infrastructure that supports the war making capability,is rolling in his tomb. With the capabilities we have today


I do not think you have even a basic understand of the military doctrine that Sherman espoused.

Afghanistan being "a wild place" doesn't mean spit,not with satellites,Predators,Global Hawks,

You place too much emphasis on the technology.

FAE bombs,MLRS and total air superiority. William Tecumseh would have burned every damned last poppy they grow.

And that would stop them doing what exactly? I mean given that your first supposition is wrong, that Taliban and Al Queda are profiting from the illegal drug trade, and that it is of their own design, then well this one would be wrong.


In a country less than the size of Texas that has lost 70% of it's forests over the last two decades,locating and eradicating the poppy fields (isn't a poppy bright red or orange? Should stand out well againt what is otherwise desert)should be a snap.

Unless of course their plan isnt to wage total war on a civilian population. Apparently the self proclaimed guy on the side of 'humanity' is!

Grenadavet proudly proclaiming the need to fuck the Afghani farms in the name of war.


Unless you don't really want to win the "war on drugs" and the "war on terror" and just want to occupy and abet drug production.

You show a remarkable inability to understand the war that the US is attempting to fight.

Well, this was definitely one of the more ignorant posts. I know... I know, I keep saying that but you keep topping yourself. And its just hard to keep up with the amount of ignorance that you post everytime you hit that PUBLISH COMMENT button.

Lets start at the beginning.

Total War is not what we are fighting here. After all we are not trying to beat a population into submission. This is not WWII nor is it the Civil War. The enemy is not an organized army.

When asked why the farmers grow poppy it is said that they do it out of necessity, the country is drought stricken, and poppy is relatively easy to grow. In fact it is because of the removal of the taliban that the drug trade has flourished.



Until now. Last spring, the village was visited by men from Nangarhar Province, southeast of here astride the trade route from Kabul to Islamabad, Pakistan. The men came with poppy seeds and a promise to pay 10,000 Afghanis — worth $225 to $250 — for each kilogram, or 2.2 pounds, of raw, harvested opium.

In an agrarian nation where per-capita income is $186 a year, 16% of the roads are paved, 12% of the people have access to a sanitation system and barely two out of 1,000 have use of a telephone, that kind of cash crop is irresistible to the estimated 264,000 farmers.

So basically what we have here is nothing more then the wheels of capitalism at work ... again.

Hardly some sort of suspicious activity.

According to a story on NPR, what the US is attempting to do to combat this is instead show the Afghani farmers how to profit from produce crops instead. Unfortunately there is more money to be made in the sell of drugs, and its hard to compete on that level.

The interesting thing with this post that you make here, is how little regard you actually have for human life and the lack of understanding you have for it as well.

To you, people seem to be automatons, waiting to be switched on by the government and then turned off when no one is paying attention. People do not have motivations of their own, and in fact all that they do feeds directly into your paranoia and delusions. Sadly someone who says he's on the side of 'humanity' (laughably nothing could be further from the truth) you show a lack of regard for how humans act.

But then this isn't really a surprise.

Really what you have at work here in Afghanistan and the drug trade is nothing more evil then capitalism at work.

Now I suppose you would be happy if we engaged in total war, annhilated whole cities and then bombed the farmer who was trying to make some money to support his family that would surely win over the population.

And according to you apparently the Taliban was a largely peace loving regime who eradicated drug farmers out of their kindness to Civilization.

You show a VERY, and really, I cannot stress this enough, but you show a VERY SHALLOW view on things. One that remarkably does not credit anyone but a handful of people any sort of motivations beyond what a sooper sekrit government suggests

Anonymous said...

The goalposts have moved again laidies and gentlemen!

Now drug production in Afghanistan = US Government committed 9/11 attacks.

Wow, you morons *REALLY* don't have a leg to stand on.

patrick cm said...

no you debunking morons do not have a leg to stand on, that idiot eric keeps saying shit that is not even true.

eric grenadavet was in the military, you however are a bigot against 9/11 truth and all your views are based of hatred and a fear of what other people think about you.

patrick cm said...

spanked around? you are only kidding yourself, i use quote and history, you insult. your a fag and you don't know anything.

also you lie a lot

Anonymous said...

"you insult. your a fag"

Ok, you are either delusional, braindead, or trolling. Whichever it is (and it doesn't really matter which one), you deserve no further response.

Go ahead and live your life like everyone is out to get you. I'll wave to you when I drive by the trailer park, and I'll know it's you because yours will be the one covered in tin foil with the mo-ped out front.

Eric said...

eric grenadavet was in the military, you however are a bigot against 9/11 truth and all your views are based of hatred and a fear of what other people think about you.

I suppose if I called myself Persiangulfvet or maybe EngineeringEric, this would some how prove that I am what?

Someone who could post on the internet and use a name. Riiiight, anyone who tries to hide behind his qualifications while posting anonymously on an internet board is just hilarious. But it points again to your gullibility. Just because someone posts it on the internet doesnt make it true.

Now the comical allegations that I am a bigot. I'll admit that I have zero tolerance for stupidity. I suppose if you want to sit around and argue about semantics about what the word means, well... we could very easily apply it to you as well.

Lets have a little fun here:

From the 15th century on Old French bigot meant "an excessively devoted or hypocritical person." Bigot is first recorded in English in 1598 with the sense "a superstitious hypocrite."

That seems to describe Patrick here to a tee.

Its also important to note that you are unable to respond to my response to Grenadavet, and instead simply attack by saying, nuh uh.... he's a vet!

It strikes me as interesting that you deny the authority of one set of people with qualifications but immediately cling to the authority with NO qualifications.

*shakes head* Patrick... patrick... you are one sad person.

Eric said...

spanked around? you are only kidding yourself, i use quote and history, you insult. your a fag and you don't know anything.

also you lie a lot


Translation: Patrick having been spanked a lot by facts and reality resorts to little more then name calling.

Perhaps you care to back up the assertion that I lie a lot?

Eric said...

slave obama

The hypocrisy of you calling ANYONE at all a bigot is obviously lost on you Patrick

patrick cm said...

i'm not a bigot, i don't dislike you because of your opinion, i dislike you because you ignore evidence, lie and then insult people and act like a bigot.

If you lie , ignore evidence, and don't read books, then ya i guess you could believe the official story and hate people that don't.

Anonymous said...

"ignore evidence"???

TOO FUCKING FUNNY!

Eric said...

i'm not a bigot,

Slave Obama was written by whom?

Ur a fag was written by whom?

Panty wearing Guiliani was written by whom?

Ohhh you are indeed a bigot, and worse. You are a hypocrite, and that in my mind is worse then anything.

i don't dislike you because of your opinion,



i dislike you because you ignore evidence,

Such as? As someone pointed out above, TOO FUCKING FUNNY ~_^

lie

When?


and then insult people

Did I hurt your feelings pointing out all the flaws in your stupidity? Did Patrick CM get all weepy eyed from my cruel cruel writings?

and act like a bigot.

hello pot, how comes you call ME black?

If you lie ,

Where have I lied?

ignore evidence,

Such as? If you had any evidence to provide people might take you... you know... seriously.... instead of treating you like a loon.

and don't read books,

Probably have read more books then you.

then ya i guess you could believe the official story and hate people that don't.

I don't hate you, i pity you, I do not like you, but hate? Strong word, despise even.

People like you are ghouls, and parasites.

To someone like you it is easier to seek comfort in the endless ignorance of 911 twoof then it is to face reality. You live in a shell, and that shell is the paranoid delusion that has come about because you do not want to accept the reality of a terrorist attack on 9/11. Instead you have to believe in a wild fantasy without the slimmist bit of evidence to support it.

Its easier that way isn't it?

patrick cm said...

you know being a bigot is different from being poltically correct,

I'm not a bigot or a hypocrite.

The slimmest bit of evidence? You mean besides the fact that natural laws were ignored such as conservation of momentum.

Oh and political correctness started in communist russia as a way to curb free speech. Fuck off fascist.

Why don't you fucking provide some evidence that jihadists did 9/11, then I can move back to america and see my fucking family you piece of shit.

Ya "someone" pointed out how funny it is, and he is a fucking coward afraid to put a name to himself.

You havn't pointed out any flaws, you are a fucking loon. The fact that the loose change dorks are still alive is not a flaw you fucking dumbass.

Eric said...

The slimmest bit of evidence?

I should correct that, you know... point out that there IS NO EVIDENCE.

You mean besides the fact that natural laws were ignored such as conservation of momentum.

Riiight, I mean this totally escaped the notice of all the professionals in the world cause they were fooled. You keep repeating this but again you provide no evidence to back it up. Once you can explain how the 'conservation of momentum' was not followed then perhaps you could regain some of that lost credibility, of course I realize no such explanation will be forthcoming and instead you will resort to saying it again and again, without any evidence.... at all.



Oh and political correctness started in communist russia as a way to curb free speech.

Oh and you're still a hypocrite and still a bigot.

Fuck off fascist.

Such a clever come back.... oh dear, a boy who is completely detached from reality and thinks that 10000+ people conspired to pull off the greatest cover up in history, ... thinks I'm a facist.

*weep... sob*

*slap*

Ahhhh... thats how you calm an unruly child isn't it? Who said a firm hand doesn't work.


Why don't you fucking provide some evidence that jihadists did 9/11,

Well, theres the confession, of course them boarding the planes, the investigations, the passport that was found, the DNA evidence, the cell phone calls, the wreckage, the debris, the analysis by the NIST, Purdue University and the contractors that work with them. Theres also the NIST report itself, the admission by the jihadi's on pre recorded 'last tape' type deals. Theres the missing planes, oh yes the people killed on those planes as well, I suppose they're all in on it too? Cell phone calls, eye witnesses, video footage of the planes.

Then lets combine that with the complete LACK of evidence supporting your claims, the utter illogical nature of your assertions, and of course ... well theres that whole credibility thing.

Tell me where you ever able to answer the questions I have about how the bombs were placed in the building? Also perhaps you could describe to me what happened to the planes? Are you a no planer? Please describe to me what you feel should have been the appropriate response by NORAD that day? Also tell me how the eye witnesses at the Pentagon saw a plane that you say they didn't.

then I can move back to america

Wow you truly are a coward.

and see my fucking family

A very big coward. My goodness.

you piece of shit.

Patrick, you are a moral and intellectual coward on all accounts, I have no pity for you, nor any regard for you. You moved out of the country because of events that happened on 911? If you were so scared of the eeeevil gubmint, why did you not take your family with you?

You fled, you fled and now you want my pity for doing that? If what you say is true, and who knows, this is the internet, it only makes you a bigger fool in my book.

Ya "someone" pointed out how funny it is, and he is a fucking coward afraid to put a name to himself.

And you fled the country into anonymity, what a coward you are. A hypocrite and worse. Everyone on the internet lives in anonymity, just because you post your name Patrick CM does not make you any more anonymous then the person who posted it under anonymous, here again you show that you are a hypocrite.

You believe whole heartedly into this foolishness of 911 twoof, but when pressed you cannot provide any evidence. Let me assure you that the burden of evidence rests solely on 911 twoof. The nonsense that 'we are just asking questions' is just that. Nonsense.

If you were just 'asking questions' you would not have that nifty black t-shirt that says "911 was an Inside Job".

You havn't pointed out any flaws, you are a fucking loon.

I beg to differ, and you have yet to answer any of the questions I pushed towards you. Do you honestly think that every investigating officer, journalist and the family of Gary Webb was involved in his death?

The fact that the loose change dorks are still alive is not a flaw you fucking dumbass.

As you dissolve into little more then name calling it truly is the signal that I have broken down some of your preconceptions. So heres my thought to you, dwell on it and think on it. Letting go of these preconcieved notions will be hard, but you will be smarter because of it.

I am more a skeptic then you, you are not a skeptic, you are a gullible individual, and that is why you have resorted to doing nothing more then name calling at long last.

Ask yourself, are the questions I demand of you really that taxing? Why is it that you cannot answer any of them? Why is it that you parrot everything that a twoofer says.

Asking questions is a fine and dandy thing, and should be encouraged, but you have to be willing to accept the answers and NOT look for the answers that you want to hear.



If you truly did flee the country because of all of this, well... that is just sad and pathetic. And if you said it in order to garner some pity from me, you will not find any here.

patrick cm said...

please prove to me jihadist did 9/11 because i would like to see my family.

Oh and seeing jihadists lurking around every corner is just as paranoid as thinking the gobment did it. You hypocrite.

I'm not gonna answer your questions because you will just be like oh well those quotes from all those people don't count and drug trade is not revlevant and drug dealers are farmers.

Anonymous said...

Patrick cm . . . the jihadists confessed and there is no reason or evidence to think that anyone else did it.

Care to elaborate why you can't see your family if the government committed the 9/11 attacks?

patrick cm said...

the people who did the attack died, and then others put words in their mouths. What are the dead gonna say otherwise?

How do we know that the confession tape is real, i've seen fake videos on truther movies, and how do we know that the terrorists aren't working with our government and an international drug conspiracy to go against the best intrests of the usa as quoted by david rockefeller.

Eric said...

please prove to me jihadist did 9/11 because i would like to see my family.

And exactly what would prove it to you? Aside from your cowardice, your moral and intellectual cowardice and your unwillingness to look at the actual facts surrounding the facts, and your gullibility into the twoof movement, there is not much more proof that can be shown to you. Either you accept the confessions of them, or you continue to live in ignorance and stupidity.

Oh and seeing jihadists lurking around every corner is just as paranoid as thinking the gobment did it. You hypocrite.

I do not think there are jihadists lurking around every corner, nor do I live in fear of them. So again, I think perhaps you need to look up the word hypocrite since you clearly are ascribing to me your own worries and fears. Sorry, but no, doesnt work that way.

I'm not gonna answer your questions because you will just be like oh well those quotes from all those people don't count

Perhaps you could make the quotes relevant, and ensure that they come from people with credibility?

I know... isnt it a little silly... asking for credibility and relevance? I'm sure a comment made 80 years ago from a populist mayor is very relevant today. o_O

To someone.

See Patrick, you don't look at evidence, you run looking for something that will give you the answer YOU want to hear.

There is no evidence that it was a controlled demolition. But instead you cling to it like a gospel. You have become a weak bleater Patrick, reduced to saying the most mundane of twoofer lies, 'prove to me that it was Jihadis'

*sigh*

and drug trade is not revlevant and drug dealers are farmers.

Point to me where I said either one of those things.

I said, the drug trade is a result of capitalism, that the poppy growers are indeed farmers. Perhaps you would like to contradict that with some hard evidence?

Oh that pesky word again... evidence.

Eric said...

the people who did the attack died, and then others put words in their mouths. What are the dead gonna say otherwise?

Except for the video taped suicide notes eh? Oh yeah... those.

How do we know that the confession tape is real,

Great, I'm sure you can provide evidence that it isnt right? oh .... yeah... evidence again =\

i've seen fake videos on truther movies,

Well, at least we have a confession from you that the twoofers regularly lie.

and how do we know that the terrorists aren't working with our government and an international drug conspiracy to go against the best intrests of the usa

*spews drink across the room*

Paranoia at its finest. Does Patrick have any evidence to back this up? No of course not. Instead he'll quote Rockefeller.

A single quote, no evidence, nothing to back him up, just he'll quote it and say, 'welll.... see Rockefeller knew!' or something equally mundane and stupid.

Hard evidence Patrick, you have a video taped confession, now prove that they DIDN'T do it.

After all the burden of proof lies on you.

patrick cm said...

How is a confession from a terrorist some how better evidence than a confession in an autobiography from one of the richest men on the planet?

how is the burden of proof on me when we are repeatedly lied to? baby incubators, gulf of tonkins, uss liberty, pearl harbor, the lucitania, even WMDs? on and on and on.

How is the burden of proff on me when all this money that would be spent on healthcare education, etc etc, is now being sent into the coffers of the military industrial complex, why wouldn't they do it? What motive do they have to not make shit loads of money?

Anonymous said...

how is the burden of proof on me when we are repeatedly lied to? baby incubators, gulf of tonkins, uss liberty, pearl harbor, the lucitania, even WMDs? on and on and on.

You're just proving that you believe any and all conspiracy theories that come bouncing down the road. I suggest we stop arguing with Patrick as you cannot reason someone out of a situation that they didn't reason themself into.

Eric said...

How is a confession from a terrorist some how better evidence than a confession in an autobiography from one of the richest men on the planet?

Confession? Rockefeller admitted to planning 911?!!!!

Holy crap! stop the presses! According to Patrick here Rockefeller admitted to 911!

Ohh right... Sorry Patrick, Rockefeller was not writing about a huge conspiracy out to get you, but instead about the need to keep an eye on government. Something that needs to be done, not by paranoia, but by rational thought.



how is the burden of proof on me when we are repeatedly lied to?

you are the one making the outrageous claims, you say it cannot be terrorists but you are not providing any evidence to the contrary. You simply clap your hand over your ears, scream nanananannaan like a child, and refuse to hear anything but what you want to hear.

baby incubators,

Relatively small conspiracy involving only a handful of people that was.... FOUND OUT.

gulf of tonkins,

Again... found out and differing views on what happened.

uss liberty,

Again differing views on what happened, and the USS Liberty was indeed attacked, perhaps you believe it was a purposeful attack by Israel, but you provide no evidence to back up the claim.

pearl harbor,

You are a loon.

the lucitania,

An even bigger loon

even WMDs?

There was question to their existance even before the war, hardly a massive conspiracy. Perhaps you bought into it but not everyone did.

How is the burden of proff on me


Proof

when all this money that would be spent on healthcare education,

I'm cueing up those violins.

etc etc, is now being sent into the coffers of the military industrial complex,

Military industrial complex again, its just industry at work. Stop being a naive fool living in the 1960s.

why wouldn't they do it? What motive do they have to not make shit loads of money?

What a bunch of hooey finally from you Patrick, honestly. You are an idiot. I would use stronger words but nothing I say could actually convey my utter contempt of someone of such limited intelligence and imagination.

The question is WHY would they do it?

We're talking about quite possibly the most retarded, illogical, obtuse, needlessly baroque plans ever concieved by a person or a group in the history of mankind.

And for what reason? Why to go to war.... like the US has ever needed a reason to declare war on someone. Unlike Korea, or Vietnam, or the 1st Gulf War.

The reality though is that you Patrick, you... live in LALA Land. An imaginary place where you ascribe no motives to anyone but evil ones.

Grow up, or if you are grown up, get real.

You want to prove that 911 was an inside job? Great, fine... do it.

WITH FRIGGING EVIDENCE.

I dare you to walk into court, and present your case to a jury that 911 was an inside job by reading a quote from a 1922 Mayor of NYC. Or try to back up your assertion by reading an out of context quote by Dwight Eisenhower.

I dare you to try to pass off - well prove to me that it DIDN'T happen like this in a court of law.

I mean holy christ on a pogo stick, are you so dense to not realize that you are played? Do you not know that people like David Ray Griffin are simply laughing all the way to the bank at people like you? Eager paranoids who are only to willing to buy into their stupidity because you are too afraid to think for yourself?

And trust me... you are indeed too afraid to think for yourself. It is a harder thing to believe in what really happened then it is to believe in some wild paranoid theory that is not supported by the single bit of evidence.

Confessions from the Jihadis? NEVER! I WILL NOT BELIEVE IT! Bin Laden admitting to it? NUH UH HE's LYING! NIST finding no evidence of Controlled Demolitions? NO WAY, they're on it too.

It goes on and on with you, you do not want to hear the evidence, you just want to believe what you want. And whats worse, is that you do not accept anything else.

So heres your challenge, have the courage of your convictions here instead of being a moral, and intellectual coward. Push your case with all of its *snicker* evidence to court. I dare you to talk to a lawyer.

Maybe its time for twoofers to stop being cowards and to have the courage of their convictions.

No one is holding their breath though.

patrick cm said...

oh david ray griffin is laughing all the way to the bank but GE isn't.

eric you are staring at a tree and ignoring the forest because you are distracted.

rockefeller creates money out of thin air via the federal reserve.

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." ... This Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Lol so what court should i go to? the court of outerspace or the moon?

"...The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over City, State, and nation... It seizes in its long and powerful tentacles our executive officers, our legislative bodies, our schools, our courts, our newspapers, and every agency created for the public protection..."

"To depart from mere generalizations, let me say that at the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller-Standard Oil interest and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as the international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes."

"They practically control both parties, write political platforms, make catspaws of party leaders, use the leading men of private organizations, and resort to every device to place in nomination for high public office only such candidates as will be amenable to the dictates of corrupt big business..."

"These international bankers and Rockefeller-Standard Oil interests control the majority of the newspapers and magazines in this country. They use the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of office public officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the invisible government...."

This "invisible government", Hylan and others argued, exercised its control of the US Government through the Federal Reserve.

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it," Rockefeller writes on page 405.

Yes and he confesses and you don't accept this, but you accept the Bin Laden tape, that's a double standard.

Anonymous said...

"Ya "someone" pointed out how funny it is, and he is a fucking coward afraid to put a name to himself."

Wrong - as always truthtard - I'm just being lazy and not registering.

My name is Thomas Cook, I live in Allen, TX - why don't you do something about it pussy?

patrick cm said...

um, you don't have to register to comment, it helps if you put a name because then you can participate in the conversation.

I'm not interested in fighting you sorry. I'm interested in stopping fighting cause it's really fucking stupid to fight.

Thomas, rich people fund both sides of the war and trick us into fighting eachother and then they make shit loads of cash, we should stop this from happening.

Thomas said...

"trick us" patrick?

You're telling this to a person who:

A. Has spent 24 years in the military (12 active and 12 active reserves) the last 17 of them in VFA-201 (as a NFO) here in DFW. I've done four deployments to the Persian Gulf including the one in 1990/91.

B. I'm one of those rich people you mention thanks to stock options and the tech boom.

I guess I tricked myself into fighting.

You really don't want to have this discussion with me.

Later Delta Sierra!

patrick cm said...

Thomas we got of on the wrong foot, I'd like to be civil as I'm interested in what you have to say.

I do want to have this discussion with you, I've been waiting for someone to show me that 9/11 happened the way the government said it did so I can go see my family as I miss them. I have moved out of the USA.

Have you read up on the occult?

Eric said...

Still waiting on some evidence there Patrick, taking quotes from people does not constitute evidence. Rockefeller's 'confession' is nothing of the sort and does not point to any government complicity in the 911 attacks do it?

You are starting to wear your paranoia on the outside, and its starting to get a little tiring. Your moral cowardice is showing and well to be honest, the fact that you have moved out of the country... for some bizarre reason... that probably only makes sense to you, makes me lead further to believe that you could only really be little more then a cowardly hypocrite.

So Patrick, still waiting on some concrete evidence, not quotes taken out of context, not quotes that do not support 911 being an inside job, but that you find interesting.

Actual physical evidence.

See Patrick, all you have to do is get some evidence.

You find all sorts of reasons to be a coward and not stand by your convictions, and they all feed back into your paranoia:


Lol so what court should i go to? the court of outerspace or the moon?


So basically you find reasons to avoid doing ... well anything. You who feel you are armed with so much evidence, cower and hide in another country. You leave your family behind, because ... well ... you are a child.

Rather then to fight for those convictions that you seem to hold so dear, you flee.

You run away. You turn tail and hide.

That is by definition a coward.

So Patrick, why do you only post rhetoric when I ask for evidence.

Or do you believe in every little childish thing someone throws your way.


Have you read up on the occult?


With this final last sentence you finally reveal the true depths of your gullibility and ignorance.

The sad thing is, that you've allowed your mind to be poisoned and have surrendered your thoughts to this notion of it being an inside job, but what you have shown though is a willingness to believe in will... anything... anyone says as long as it is fits into your frame of reference.

The more apt idiom that could be ascribed to you is :

You cannot see the forest for the trees

If you want to believe in a shadow government because someone took a handful of quotes out of context, then you are free to do it, but do not expect anyone, and I do mean anyone other then the small 4.6% of people who believe in 911 twoof to actually take you seriously.

Eric said...

I've been waiting for someone to show me that 9/11 happened the way the government said it did so I can go see my family as I miss them. I have moved out of the USA.

You have been shown over and over again that your beliefs are basically lies, that you do not have the slightest inkling of what happened that day, and you ignore it.

You ignore everything that doesnt fit into your tidy little belief system, you ignore all of the realities of the world, all in favor of something ignorant and stupid without even the slightest bit of evidence to back it up.

You have a study done by a well respected engineering team, but no... thats not quite good enough for you, because you read somewhere that the laws of physics were broken.

So naturally ... when faced with the possibility of believing David Ray Griffin and his History of Science degree versus a team of engineers, and physicists... you naturally believe who?

Oh right... you go with the History of Science degree.

O_O

You IGNORE evidence and can't even produce any evidence other then quotes, to back up your assertion that what happened that day could not have happened like the government says it does.

All because...well ... not ONE CREDIBLE - no one, no engineers with structural backgrounds, no Civil Engineers, not a single person with any sort of respectable degree believes it.

But who do you choose... CHOOSE to believe instead? James Fetzer? A theologian? David Ray Griffin? History of Science? Dylan Avery? Film School Reject?

Korey Rowe? Army Deserter?

Kevin Ryan? Professional Water tester?

Stephen Jones - Engineer who does not follow scientific method?

You believe in 911 twoof, because you want to believe in it, its easier and more convenient for you.

And while you have ... cowardly ... fled the country, you have abandoned your family, and left them behind.

There is no reason for anyone on any board to ever respect you.

patrick cm said...

hey eric whats up,

I'd like to thank you for demonstrating how a scientific dictatorship works, much like religion of the past.

See they wouldn't let us common folk read the bible back in the day, so the "experts" or priests had a sole monopoly of what religion and god wanted of us.

We can clearly see this taking place with global warming and events like 9/11.

Michael Crichton is on of the top authors on the planet and his new book state of fear is similar to alex jones's endgame. Not that I like alex jones, I don't but obviously if different people are doing the same research and finding the same stuff, there is something to this.

If you wanna dismiss evidence and history and people's quotes, that's fine, but you should know that you are a dumbass for it.

Let me leave you with a quote from a book called the first global revolution, you know, something to back up what i say, unlike you who just insults people.

"In searching for a new enemy to unite us we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like, would fit the bill."

Gee that's funny, why would the elite have to search for new enemies for us? Don't they just randomly pop up when the old ones go away?

patrick cm said...

oh ya eric, they can rig 9/11 but not a court case HAHAHAHAHAHA what a fucking joke, have you heard of the oj trial ? hahahahaha

patrick cm said...

"You find all sorts of reasons to be a coward and not stand by your convictions, and they all feed back into your paranoia:"

See islamic terrorists lurking around every corner is just as paranoid as believing in an invisible government.

"You ignore everything that doesnt fit into your tidy little belief system, you ignore all of the realities of the world, all in favor of something ignorant and stupid without even the slightest bit of evidence to back it up."

Right and where is the court of law that convicted bin laden for 9/11? and have you proved it to me yet with any evidence? Did you ignore the anthrax attacks and barry seal and a bunch of quotes?

"You have a study done by a well respected engineering team, but no... thats not quite good enough for you, because you read somewhere that the laws of physics were broken."

no, not good enough, how about a court case? ok did you see the video of NIST lying to people? Can you refute that they lied to people?

"So naturally ... when faced with the possibility of believing David Ray Griffin and his History of Science degree versus a team of engineers, and physicists... you naturally believe who?"

Again the scientific dictartorship at work here. You believe someone just because of their education, but for some reason, not when it comes to Michael Crichton. I would rather like listen to waht people say and decide for myself.

"You IGNORE evidence and can't even produce any evidence other then quotes, to back up your assertion that what happened that day could not have happened like the government says it does."

at least i use quotes you don't even do that.

"All because...well ... not ONE CREDIBLE - no one, no engineers with structural backgrounds, no Civil Engineers, not a single person with any sort of respectable degree believes it."

So you are admitting that you believe things without evidence now?

You know Eric according to science bumblebees can't fly, you should go tell the bees, they got it wrong.

Eric said...



I'd like to thank you for demonstrating how a scientific dictatorship works, much like religion of the past.


And I would like to thank you for demonstrating how ignorant people often hinder the work of people and their education. Your inability to actually look beyond your own prejuidices is highlighted here. By basically saying that it is a scientific dictatorship it gives you leeway to dismiss what it is you do not like and simply claim that the other parts of it are being covered up.

But then again if you had ... well... evidence.. (pesky word...) you wouldn't have to worry about this.

But... well... theres that thing again... evidence.

Perhaps you've come up with some?

Nope... what follows is more of the inane rhetoric I've come to expect from you.

See they wouldn't let us common folk read the bible back in the day, so the "experts" or priests had a sole monopoly of what religion and god wanted of us.

Apparently you do not understand the very slightest bit of history. I would suggest not getting your history lessons from conspiracy minded history books.



We can clearly see this taking place with global warming and events like 9/11.

Not really, what you see is a group of scientists pushing the idea that global warming is occuring and backing it up with... >gasp< evidence. And well 9/11 again... the use of EVIDENCE.

Perhaps you could point me to the evidence you havE?

ohhh... snap... None =\

Perhaps you could ... you know... offer some up in your next post? yeah... I know tough thing to do... considering you have no... whats the word again? Lets all say it together here:

EVIDENCE.


Michael Crichton is on of the top authors on the planet and his new book state of fear is similar to alex jones's endgame. Not that I like alex jones, I don't but obviously if different people are doing the same research and finding the same stuff, there is something to this.

So Alex Jones endgame is a work of fiction? Well thanks for clearing that up.

Crichton's books are pointless stupid and often very poorly researched. His writing style is dull, and his books are again....
FICTION.

The fact that you put so much weight into Crichtons book which is about global warming and has very little to do with 911. But once again... in case you might have missed it.

Crichton... writes... fiction...

Fiction...

as in lies.

But entertaining lies.

But they are lies none the less.

*shakes head*


If you wanna dismiss evidence and history and people's quotes, that's fine, but you should know that you are a dumbass for it.

*snicker*

yeah cause taking quotes out of context is such a classy thing to do. Taking quotes and removing them from the way they were meant to be read. Why is it that you can only find select quotes to back up your ideas? Why not look at the rest of the persons life? Why is it that I can find more about the person, and how they would've thought about the idiocy of 911 twoof then you can?

Trust me... you call me in a dumbass, makes you ... well I dont think they have come up with a word to describe the complete and utter stupidity that you have to exemplify if I am a dumbass.


Let me leave you with a quote from a book called the first global revolution, you know, something to back up what i say, unlike you who just insults people.

I use evidence, you take quotes. Maybe if you had evidence, you wouldnt need to remove quotes from context. Asking a lot I'm sure.

"In searching for a new enemy to unite us we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like, would fit the bill."

Gee that's funny, why would the elite have to search for new enemies for us? Don't they just randomly pop up when the old ones go away?


Wow, you know what is truly amusing.

That you find this to be a revelation.

Honestly, how naive, and how foolish do you have to be to find this a revelation? I knew this back in high school.

Its clear to just about anyone who reads.

But you know what it doesnt mean? It doesnt mean that people will not act without their own motivations.

See Patrick, you think this is some sort of revelation? The government creates enemies? Oh please, this is basic. Its no real revelation to anyone.

However, in your zeal to ignore all evidence to the contrary, you seem to forget that there are other people in the world with their own motivations.

The only thing that your little quote would point to is that the Bush administration played on fears of people after 911.

This is hardly a revelation. This isn't even noteworthy in the slightest. Its what happened!

And to you this is what? Information that they planned and executed it?

See Patrick this is why I find you to be such a failure. You forget that there other people in the world with their own motivations.

To you Bin Laden is just a puppet, he has no other motives, nothing else to guide him. He attacked the US so therefore he must be a puppet of the US. The only evil people in the world are in the US and control the government. You provide no evidence to back this up, but you imply it with your cute sideaway about the occult. Everyone else in the world, they just sit around and wait for the US to do something.

Unfortunately for you, people are not automatons, they are not robots waiting to be switched on to do the bidding of their masters. They have the intelligence to actually act on their own, and that is what they did on 911. Most likely in response to US policies regarding the middle east. While politicians can wax poetic about them hating our freedoms, this is a simplistic and ignorant view of what happened. If they are unwilling to look at the US policies regarding the middle east and what really caused these attacks, then its time to elect ones who will.

However, engaging in delusional fantasy about a shadow government is just plain sad, and more of an escapist fantasy then believing that we were attacked because Bin Laden hates our freedoms.

Eric said...

You find all sorts of reasons to be a coward and not stand by your convictions, and they all feed back into your paranoia:"

See islamic terrorists lurking around every corner is just as paranoid as believing in an invisible government.

Once again, I do not see Islamic terrorists lurking around every corner, I have no particular fear of them. You though... well thats a whole other story. Do not try to ascribe to me what you believe to be true.


Right and where is the court of law that convicted bin laden for 9/11? and have you proved it to me yet with any evidence? Did you ignore the anthrax attacks and barry seal and a bunch of quotes?

Didnt we address all of this all ? Perhaps you didnt follow the Moussaoui trial? As for evidence, the empirical engineering evidence is out on the web for everyone to see, its called the NIST report. You could ignore it all you want but a great case for it does not exist, and you have failed to do anything with it, and shown that you have not even bothered to just read the faq and the supplemental faq regarding it.

As far as the Anthrax attacks, as I've pointed out before, no one has any firm evidence on who caused it, you're implied accusation is that it had to be carried out by the US Government but again you provide no evidence to back it up. Just say... well you ignore it.

No I do not, however it is not relevant to the empirical evidence of the towers collapse. And again, Barry Seal, I do not ignore him, but he is again irrelevant. We've already gone over the Iran Contra affair and how it is a mostly public knowledge now. Again a small cabal of people failed to keep something hidden. Perhaps you do not realize that bringing up Barry Seal actually serves to discredit you because once again... it could not be kept secret. Unlike the massive amounts of resources required to bring about 911 a very small handful of people could not keep the Iran Contra affair and the drug peddling involved in that under wraps. o_O yet you seem to think this somehow ... supports you?

Perhaps you say that he was murdered by the government but you seem to forget that the Meddelin Cartel has an incredible reach and a violent history, and have carried out numerous assassinations. Honestly, why you bring up Barry Seal is beyond me.



no, not good enough, how about a court case?

How about the Moussaoui trial ? Or not good enough for you. How about they CATCH bin laden before they try him? Oh yeah theres that pesky thing again, innocent before proven guilty.


ok did you see the video of NIST lying to people? Can you refute that they lied to people?

Did see it, saw someone removed from context, and then I pointed you to what the NIST really said about molten metal. Huh...

So ... sorry Patrick, much like the famed Silverstein 'pull it' quote, the only thing that your little video shows is the dishonesty under which the twoof movement operates.



Again the scientific dictartorship at work here.

Not at all its called empirical evidence. The NIST has it... you do not.

You believe someone just because of their education,

No I believe someone because of the evidence. Pesky thing that... perhaps you could show me the evidence you have?

Oh.. right... zilch.

but for some reason, not when it comes to Michael Crichton.

When Crichton writes a non fiction study of the 911 collapse then I'll take his views on it seriously, Perhaps you are denying that he is a writer of fiction?

I would rather like listen to waht people say and decide for myself.

Actually you would rather listen to the people who agree with you and then have them decide for you. you accept no personal responsibility.

at least i use quotes you don't even do that.


So you are admitting that you believe things without evidence now?

Please point me to where I said that? Oh right.. this is another example of you removing quotes from context.

Ahh shame shame Patrick, still waiting on your ... evidence.

You know Eric according to science bumblebees can't fly, you should go tell the bees, they got it wrong.

HAHAHAHHAhAH

OH god, see Patrick... again... you prove your ignorance. Sorry Patrick, it is a myth that science ever believed that. But it points to a rush to judgement:

It is believed that the calculations which purported to show that bumblebees cannot fly are based upon a simplified linear treatment of oscillating aerofoils. The method assumes small amplitude oscillations without flow separation. This ignores the effect of dynamic stall, an airflow separation inducing a large vortex above the wing, which briefly produces several times the lift of the aerofoil in regular flight. More sophisticated aerodynamic analysis shows that the bumblebee can fly because its wings encounter dynamic stall in every oscillation cycle.

It is a bit of a myth, and points to some of the incongruities in what you see and what can be expected. We see a buzzing fat bee at work, and we think, dear god how can that fat thing fly....

But then who do we turn too? Aerodynamics, we turn to reality, and investigate it, and what does it tell us? Why it gives us some answers, it explains that a bumblebee can indeed fly, and that it is not against the science or aerodynamics of science to suggest it.

Thank you though, for highlighting your ignorance. I suppose it removes a little magic of the world, the idea that bumblebees should not be able to fly, only to find out that ... there isnt anything strange about it. The world is more complicated then that, there are more forces at work then just bumblebees cant fly, or the US bad.

You want to take a simplified view of the world, go ahead. you want to believe a fiction writer over empirical analysis, you go do that. It doesnt make you any smarter, nor does it remove my belief that you are a coward, morally, intellectually. Nor does it remove my growing suspicion that 911 twoof is just a convenient cover for problems with your family.

patrick cm said...

no you are wrong, bin laden wanted us out of islamic countries, he wouldn't attack us and give us a reason to invade them, he wants us out, bush wanted us in, go figure who did 9/11 lol it's so obvious

as for evidence all I need to do is watch the fucking towers fall, they blow up in front of your eyes.

what about al gore's connection with armand hammer? the communist scare was a ruse, just like this fucking terrorists bull shit, it's so blatanly obvious what the fuck is your problem?

An Army biological and chemical warfare facility in Utah has been quietly developing a virulent, weapons-grade formulation of anthrax spores since at least 1992, and samples of the bacteria were shipped back and forth between that facility and Fort Detrick, Md. ... The Utah spores, grown and processed at the 800,000-acre Dugway Proving Ground about 80 miles from Salt Lake City, belong to the Ames strain -- the same strain used in the deadly letters sent to media outlets and two senators in September and October. No other nation is known to have made weapons-grade Ames. [Washington Post]

The anthrax attacks in the United States were probably the work of a member of a U.S. biological warfare program, the magazine of environment pressure group Greenpeace Germany reported Wednesday. .. "The U.S. delegation believe it is an inside job. ... Their members also have more information than has been made public," Kirsten Brodde, a reporter for the magazine, told Reuters. The magazine said: "It seems the attacker ... wanted to force through an increase in the budget for U.S. research on biological weapons." [Discovery Channel]

"After the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the Bush Administration tried to ram the USA PATRIOT Act through Congress," [Francis A.] Boyle said in a radio interview with Austin-based talk-show host Alex Jones. "That would have set up a police state. Senators Tom Daschle (D-South Dakota) and Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont) were holding it up because they realized what this would lead to. The first draft of the PATRIOT Act would have suspended the writ of habeas corpus [which protects citizens from unlawful imprisonment and guarantees due process of law]. Then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, come these anthrax attacks."

"At the time I myself did not know precisely what was going on, either with respect to September 11 or the anthrax attacks, but then the New York Times revealed the technology behind the letter to Senator Daschle. [The anthrax used was] a trillion spores per gram, [refined with] special electro-static treatment. This is superweapons-grade anthrax that even the United States government, in its openly proclaimed programs, had never developed before. So it was obvious to me that this was from a U.S. government lab. There is nowhere else you could have gotten that." [AfterDowningStreet]

oh snap, egg on your face

so either al queda wants us to have a patriot act, or our government is behind this shit, hmmm, i wonder gee, what really happened.

if you look at 9/11 logically it doesn't really hold up, that's why i don't believe that shit. evidence can be faked, but logically 9/11 didn't happen they way the said it did, because it's illogical for al queda to anthrax attack. it's illogical for bin laden to fly planes into world trade towers.

Eli said...

Uhh, I don't know who Thomas Cook from Allen, TX is but I'm the one who wrote most of the anon comments in this topic and the previous topic. My name is Eli and I live in Arizona. I didn't know you could enter a name without registering.

Eli said...

Patrick I really think you need to seek professional mental health care. If you really moved out of the country (which I actually doubt), then your delusions are having a serious negative impact on your life. You may even want to consider having yourself committed for awhile. I am not insulting you but you are clearly sick and need help to get better. Really think about it, buddy.

patrick cm said...

thanks eli i can tell you are a trained professional.

Eric said...

no you are wrong, bin laden wanted us out of islamic countries, he wouldn't attack us and give us a reason to invade them, he wants us out, bush wanted us in, go figure who did 9/11 lol it's so obvious


So when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor they had accurately thought of what would happen afterwards. Obviously your simple minded analysis should make complete sense. But hey after all you have a degree in what? Stupidity?

As I pointed out before, history is full and rife with mistakes made by people in their attempts to get a country to do one thing or another. Its doubtful that Bin Laden thought the attacks would remove us from the countries that he wanted us from. But if you enjoy 20/20 vision, there isnt much you can do about it.

as for evidence all I need to do is watch the fucking towers fall, they blow up in front of your eyes.


Yeah, thats what they teach in engineering classes right?

Perhaps you could point me to another tower that had a 590mph plane slam into it and the resulting fires? Perhaps you could tell me how it should've fallen, and by what basis you make your simple minded analysis. Please provide the detailed calculations and point out the parts in the NIST report that you find wrong and show where the calculations are wrong.

Please also provide evidence of demolition, after all there should've been explosions going off all over that building, all through the building, after all controlled demolitions are loud and explosive things, and well none of the video evidence shows any explosions going off.
Please also describe how the plumes of dust are not actually caused by any sort of air pressure, and how they tied in with the collapse.

While you're at it, please explain how none of the firefighters witnessed any explosive devices.

I'll eagerly await your answer! Cause after all you watched the towers fall and your extensive study into the field of engineering (ie 15 minutes spent on the internet) should give you all the answers you need to make a detailed assessment!



what about al gore's connection with armand hammer?

What about many of the anti - global warming scientists connection to the oil industry?


the communist scare was a ruse,

And all it took was one person standing up to McCarthy to bring it all tumbling down. The Red Scare of the 1950s in the end showed the power of television. It was a play on people's fear, and was largely due to the charisma and forcefulness of McCarthy.

just like this fucking terrorists bull shit,

It plays off peoples fears, people who will believe anything. People like....

you.

it's so blatanly obvious what the fuck is your problem?

Nothing posted here has anything to do with 911 nor points to any involvement. Are you suggesting that it is only Al Gore who promotes Global Warming? Or that Cold War didn't exist in anyway shape or form?

People take advantage of the events that shape the world, but that doesnt mean that they control them.

oh snap, egg on your face

Not really, as it is 90% speculation. All of this I knew already and it is hardly indicative of anything other then speculation on the part of the writers. Not enough evidence exists to convict anyone of anything, and if you want to do that , well... we see how much you love democracy.

so either al queda wants us to have a patriot act,

That is one of the most simplistic and ignorant views I've ever read. When you walk down the street and smack down a bee that is buzzing by, do you take credit for causing a hurricane in Japan later?

I find it highly doubtful that Al Queda was involved in the Anthrax attacks.

or our government is behind this shit,

That is a leap to a conclusion. In your mind you cannot honestly think of anyone else who might have done something like this? You cannot imagine anyone other then just Al - Queda or the US Government perpetrating the acts in question?

My god are you naive and foolish. Perhaps you forgot who the Una Bomber was? Again, you forget that people act with motivations of their own.

hmmm, i wonder gee, what really happened.

So do a lot of people and we are eagerly awaiting the evidence. The truth though is that you do not wonder, you have already leaped to a conclusion because you are a gullible individual.

Perhaps you should do some more research into the matter: I suggest the following -

http://anthraxinvestigation.com/


if you look at 9/11 logically it doesn't really hold up,

Based off whose logic? Your own? And by what standards are you basing it on, you have failed to show any logic in most of your posts, why should I take your words on logic at any sort of face value.

that's why i don't believe that shit.

You dont believe it because you read somewhere that it doesnt. At which point you shut off your mind.

evidence can be faked,

Thats an awful lot of evidence to fake, and an awful lot of people to be fooled, and the notion that it was a lot of evidence to be faked about something that took place right in front of ours is quite possibly the stupidest of evil plans.

but logically 9/11 didn't happen they way the said it did,

Again based off what logic? And are people really vulcans? Perhaps you've watched more Anthrax. Logically I should have taken one job over another. Logically I should've tried to find a job in my degree. People rarely react in any sort of logical way, to suggest that they do is to have a very ignorant knowledge of humanity.

History is rife with illogical choices of leaders, generals, people, and person.

Logically Lee should not have attacked the center of the Union line at Gettysburg and should've listened to Longstreet. Logically Caeser should not have crossed the Rubicon, logically the japanese should not have attacked Pearl Harbor. Logically the US should not have invaded iraq. Logically Custer should not have attacked. Logically .... logically...

For you to assign logic to a human event is the height of folly.

because it's illogical for al queda to anthrax attack.

You keep saying this but I do not think you have quite heard me that it is not widely held that Al Queda did the anthrax attacks. Further you above logic, fails utterly.

In fact... it is the very height of illogicalness.

This is what you are saying.

Al Queda does some terrorist attacks
Anthrax mail was a terrorist attack
Thefore the anthrax mail was carried out by Al Queda.

You then follow it up with

Al Queda did not do the Anthrax attacks.

Therefore it was the US Government.

O_O

That is a leap in logic the likes of which only a conspiracy minded idiot could come up with.

it's illogical for bin laden to fly planes into world trade towers.

Actualy it was one of the most clever things he did that day. He may not have realized it, but it strikes at some very basic and fundamental fears. The effectiveness of the attack was short lived though, it lasted from the point in time that first plane struck the building to the point in time when Flight 93 rose up against their hijackers.

Patrick, you should not invoke logic, as you yourself fail to embrace it in anyway. Your own logic is seriously flawed and fundamentally wrong.

So here, you love quotes and such so read this:

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000140.html

In case you won't because it points out the hopeless stupidity of conspiracy theorists, I'll even quote you a particularly fun part of it:

I believe it is the crux of the issue: what kind of moral universe do you have to inhabit to be able to believe that your own people -- airline personnel, demolition experts, police and security forces, faked witnesses and all the rest -- are capable of such a thing? How much hate for your own society do you have to carry in order to live in such a desolate and ridiculous mental hell? What psychoses must a mind be riddled with in order to negate what was perfectly obvious and instead believe a theory of such monumental fantasy? How much pure constant hatred does that take? What, in short, is the miserable black hole of self-loathing that drives a person like Rosie O'Donnell and millions like her?

How much hate do you have in your Patrick? How much self loathing do you have ? I think its a fair question.

Eric said...

thanks eli i can tell you are a trained professional.

I thought you didnt care about people's credentials? Are you questioning Eli's credibility?

Why wouldn't Eli's recommendation to you to seek psychiatric help carry the same weight as a professional trained doctor?

Isn't that what you've been arguing against all along?

By all rights then shouldn't you actually take his advice under some review? After all credentials are not important to you, credibility isn't either.

Or....

Does it actually matter to you?

Eli said...

Patrick -

-9/11 Trooth is objectively falsifiable.
-You (allegedly) used it (a false belief) as the basis for a decision that has negatively impacted your life

Therefore:

-You are clinically delusional

I know you don't give professionals much credibility (and I'm not one, for the record), but that is likely a symptom of your illness.

Please seek help.

patrick cm said...

really eli, so then everyone who believes in god is clinically delusional?

patrick cm said...

hey eric why do you lie so much?

the anthrax letters in question had written on them

09-11-01

you can not stop us

we have this anthrax

you die now

are you afraid?

death to america

death to israel

Allah is great


interesting that in muslim countries they would right the date 11-9-01

patrick cm said...

good fucking lord eric, how much TV do you watch a day?

you should read some books about armmand hammer. open your mind up a wee bit.

i can't believe anyone woulda actually think truthers beliefs are impossible. i can understand disagrement , but to dismiss 9/11 truth as something that has no evidence is just about the stupidist thing i've ever heard of.

how about those cancer virus in the vaccines? pretty sweet huh?

Eli said...

Belief in God is not as objectively falsifiable as belief in the Trooth. You also left out the part where I specified that your belief in the Trooth has lead you to make decisions that resulted in major negative impacts on your life. Typical troother strawman/selective quoting, though.

What's with your priapism for the anthrax letters, anyway? They were a non-event. No one cares now and the majority of people didn't even care back then. Who do you think mailed them, and if they're so powerful why did they do something so lame and ineffective?

Eric said...


the anthrax letters in question had written on them

09-11-01

you can not stop us

we have this anthrax

you die now

are you afraid?

death to america

death to israel

Allah is great


interesting that in muslim countries they would right the date


Another example of how simple and delusional you are.

Coincidentally you didnt address anything I brought up. You glossed over the notion that it HAD to be al-queda.

You do realize that the way they wrote the date is also indicative of a number of other countries, and in addition could've been used by anyone hoping to throw off others.

You do know that say Mexico writes the dates in the same manner.

See Patrick... there are perfectly logical conclusions to everything.

Perhaps in the future you could address my comments instead of just picking one thing out that you have a problem with. Its getting rather tiring putting out all the flaws in your thinking.

Eric said...

hey eric why do you lie so much?

Tell me at one point where I lied?

Please show me :)

I dare you.

patrick cm said...

so why did aaron russo director of trading places with eddie murphy, he was friends with rockefeller and he said that before 9/11 rockefeller had told him that 9/11 would happen.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA

Eric said...

You keep changing your stories, keep running to something new, your stories, lies long debunked now, you have to keep running to something new as if it would somehow drag the sorry excuse for a movement up out of the ground.

You rely only on what you want to hear, only what you want to know, and you discard everything else.

Now the only place that this supposed conversation took place is from Prisonplanet, the only source it would seem.

Hardly a reputable source. But you cannot even get THAT story straight.

Rockefeller Predicted "EVENT" to Trigger War

Problem here is that for one, this Nicholas Rockefeller pretty much appears to be a nobody. A lawyer sure, but he seems curiously missing from almost any web searches, unless of course you count Prisonplanet and Infowars and a small handful of other media.

It would seem that this guy is a Lawyer? Maybe? From California.

And then you have a film maker. Aaron Russo.... a FILM maker. Again, why would you turn to him for matters concerning engineering?

Oh right... cause he once directed Eddie Murphy.... right? In a film.....

About Trading Places.

That makes him eminently qualified to discuss the engineering failures, as well as making him privy to the inner workings of the government.

Eli said...

Ah, the goal posts move once again.

Remember troother douche idiot fuckbags:

Ask questions, but recognize the answers!

patrick cm said...

oh eric, i thought no one came forward

i guess everyone that's come forward is just not credible though.

lol

patrick cm said...

how's this for logic,

the biggest baddest military on the planet can't find bin laden, but a cnn reporter with a camera crew can.

sorry guys lol that's just sad

Eric said...



i guess everyone that's come forward is just not credible though.


People came forward? Great- lets hear the names.

*waits*

*cricket chirps*

Eric said...


the biggest baddest military on the planet can't find bin laden, but a cnn reporter with a camera crew can.


I'm sure you have some proof of this occurring?

*waits some more*

*cricket chirping*
Good news though - these two kids found him through Google Earth!

Yay!

Eric said...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/141790/bin_ladens_found_on_google_earth/

Theres the link. Totally true. Google Earth.

Eli said...

how's this for logic,

the biggest baddest military on the planet can't find bin laden, but a cnn reporter with a camera crew can.

sorry guys lol that's just sad


Finally, you post a verifiable claim! Now, simply show us the tape, or the transcript, or any hard evidence (remember, quotes don't count!) of a CNN reporter with a camera crew finding bin Laden after 9/11/2001 and your credibility in this discussion will skyrocket.

There's no reason you wouldn't want your credibility to skyrocket, is there?

patrick cm said...

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/COMMUNITY/12/05/gen.arnett.cnna/index.html

ok now show me that hard evidence that bin laden did it. and that fires and planes made a building explode. lol

Eli said...

Patrick, did you miss the part of my request where I specified AFTER 9/11/2001? The interview you posted took place in 1997. Please try again.

In the meantime, I'm going to be the bigger man and provide you with the two things you requested of me.

First, an article from the BBC citing bin Laden's confession:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1708091.stm

And now an explanation of how fires and planes make a building collapse:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/sunder.html

Make sure to watch the slideshow. It is very informative.

patrick cm said...

lol, he was still a wanted man before 2001 numb nutz, nice try though.

now lick my ballz

Eli said...

Wow, what a troll.

-No evidence
-Committing damn near every logical fallacy in the book
-Frequent ad hominems
-Writes like a 15 year old
-Refuses to back up the few verifiable claims he makes
-Constantly moving the goal posts instead of admitting when he gets proven wrong
-Et-fucking-cetera

Is there any reason to keep arguing with this guy?

patrick cm said...

provide some evidence to support what you are saying.

Thomas said...

"now lick my ballz"

patrick - let me ask you a serious question. Did you really leave the US and are you currently residing outside the US?

If the answers to these questions are yes please explain why you made that choice.

Thanks Delta Sierra!

patrick cm said...

yes , i live in new zealand


I decided to move out of america because i saw paralles between bush and hitler, 9/11 being the reishtag fire.

The official story didn't make sense to me because I saw that bush benefited more than Bin Laden in my opinion. que bono

When I moved I didn't know what a conspiracy theory was, only after moving did I do any research. I left purely on a gut feeling on what I believed was going on.

Eric said...

In March 1997, former CNN correspondent Peter Arnett became the first Western journalist to interview Osama bin Laden.

You may have missed that part there.

Let me highlight it for you:

In March 1997

Lets try that again since you seem to be an idiot.

In March 1997

Huh.... lets see here... lets see if you got it one more time.

In March 1997

You think its sinking in? Did the obvious escape you?

I think so!

Eric said...

Apparently Patrick only likes the sovereignty of nations when it suits him.

I decided to move out of america because

Because you are a moral coward who flees and apparently leaves behind his wife?

i saw paralles between bush and hitler,

Strong... pathetic... words. After all Bush's presidency will pass.

9/11 being the reishtag fire.

Yes because clearly we have no system of checks and balances in place, and everyone has gone along so quietly, Bush's popularity is at all time high you know? He's most likely going to nominate himself to be president for life.


I saw that bush benefited more than Bin Laden in my opinion.

Lets highlight the words here that means the most.

in my opinion.


que bono

Are you trying to speak spanish here?

When I moved I didn't know what a conspiracy theory was,

Sure you didn't I mean if you moved solely because of your fear that Bush would gain to much power, then surely you would've imagined that he had to have a hand in it. And by that nature it would've been a conspiracy.

only after moving did I do any research.

And such well thought out research I might add, I mean every single one of your points doesn't even have a leg to stand on, but boy do you cling to it like a tired old moose.

I left purely on a gut feeling on what I believed was going on.


So essentially you were a moral and intellectual coward and fled?

Basically thats what it comes down to. You flee, run away, leaving according to your previous posts, your wife and kid in this emerging police state that you claim has parallels to 1930's Germany.

So rather then work to try and change it or do anything for it, instead you ... like a coward... and I cannot stress my utter and complete contempt for you right now, like a coward, you flee.

You do not even have the courage of your conviction.

Hell you do not even have the courage of a cat, at the first sign of any supposed danger you run and hide, scurry off and duck underneath a desk.

Let me reiterate something:

You are a coward.

Did you expect that your little sob story would earn some sort of respect? Quite the opposite, my disgust rises to a whole new level.

patrick cm said...

wow eric you've reached a whole new level of stupid, let slap you around now.

In March 1997 bin laden was a wanted man. maybe even on the top ten list?

"Because you are a moral coward who flees and apparently leaves behind his wife?"

Inventing a wife so I look bad? what? Who said anything about a wife? Who said I like the sovereignty of nations? are you just smearing me as believing anything alex jones says?

"Strong... pathetic... words. After all Bush's presidency will pass."

Yes and that might matter to an idiot such as yourself, but someone like me realizes it doesn't matter who is president because they are a puppet for the rich assholes that own this country.

"Yes because clearly we have no system of checks and balances in place, and everyone has gone along so quietly, Bush's popularity is at all time high you know? He's most likely going to nominate himself to be president for life. "

Bush is suppose to absorb are hate so as the real people in power can remain in power while then exchange a Bush for a Clinton and the march goes on the same, while you believe there is change, when there is no change.

and let me quote again.

“Allow me to control the issue and the nation’s money and I care not who makes its laws!” — Amshell Rothschild

So I do not believe in checks and balances when there is a federal reserve.

"que bono

Are you trying to speak spanish here?"

sorry I spelled it wrong, I ment Cui bono. Hopefully you know what that means.

"Did you expect that your little sob story would earn some sort of respect? Quite the opposite, my disgust rises to a whole new level."

Great I could care less, I just tell the truth I don't try to insert wifes on peoples lives to make them look bad.

Eric when are you gonna post that evidence that bin laden did it, the evidence that proves you right and me wrong? LO!L!O!L!OL!O!L!O!LO!L!O!L!O!L!Ob fucking idiot.

patrick cm said...

hey eric you seem to be obsessed with court cases,

I guess that means you believe in trauma based mind control.

As MK-Ultra was brought out into the open in a montreal court.

So If the CIA has mind control, what do you now think about who shot JFK? LOL OLOLOL OLOL

Thomas said...

"I decided to move out of america because i saw paralles between bush and hitler"

patrick - you little piece of shit coward - you have no clue or idea about hitler do you? Unless you place some sort of discount on Jews or premium on Muslims. Either way you are a sick and pathetic asshole and we thank you for slithering your way out of MY country.

Later Delta Sierra

PS - Any guess what Delta Sierra means? Ask the sheep when you're done ass fucking them - they'll know.

patrick cm said...

ok thomas - you have no clue or idea about prescott bush do you? sieg heil thomas,

Eli said...

[i]“Allow me to control the issue and the nation’s money and I care not who makes its laws!” — Amshell Rothschild[/i]

You see a vast, conspiratorial shadow government. I see a quote from a guy who is more interested in finance than law.

You also realize that this quote is coming from a guy who clearly does not control the nation's money, right? I really, really hope you realize that.

Eric said...

wow eric you've reached a whole new level of stupid, let slap you around now.

You've failed to do that even once. Everytime you bring something up it gets shown back to your face that it is just plain false. I mean I think thats why you even stopped trying to bring them up because its entirely possible that you RAN out of lies to bring up! I'm surprised you didnt mention that Marvin Bush was in charge of security that day.



In March 1997 bin laden was a wanted man. maybe even on the top ten list?

And somehow that ... what? Means we should run in and get him? Cause an international crisis for the sake of apprehending a guy in the middle of a desert? *pats Patrick on the head* With every comment you make you show how lacking in even the most basic critical thinking skills you are.



Inventing a wife so I look bad?

I believe it was you who said that you would like to go back and see your wife and kid.

but someone like me

Translation: Someone like Patrick is a moral and intellectual coward who flees at the first chance possible and rather then affect any change in his country he decides to run away from his imagined behavior.


realizes it doesn't matter who is president because they are a puppet for the rich assholes that own this country.


Amazing! Wow, did you take the first level of Economics 101 to come to this conclusion? tell me what have you done to affect any change in the country?

Oh... right... you live in New Zealand.



Bush is suppose to absorb are hate so as the real people in power can remain in power while then exchange a Bush for a Clinton and the march goes on the same, while you believe there is change, when there is no change.

Yes, I mean isnt that so conveniently tied into your own delusions. There is never change, everything remains the same. I wonder what sort of world Patrick would like to live in... perhaps a socialist paradise or something similiar? Notice that Patrick rails against the 'establishment' but is unwilling to lift a finger to do anything to change it. Instead ... he flees. All that it rings is that you wish you had the money to be a part of that ruling elite, and you are jealously bitter that you have not found the way to do it yet.

The interesting thing about your delusion is how it all fits so nicely together, all pat and perfect if you look at it in a certain frame of view. You have to narrow your focus, down. So Bush ... evil mastermind ... maybe... but also the focal point of hate. And of course Hillary has to win the election but if she doesnt I'm sure we can work McCain or Obama or Guiliani or Romney or Huckabee or Edwards into it.

Its all part and parcel. Clinton's rich... and so is Bush ... my goodness! What more proof can a person ask for. Clearly the rich are out to get us.


Allow me to control the issue and the nation’s money and I care not who makes its laws!” — Amshell Rothschild


Wow, you found a quote! Congrats! Wow, someone who made a quote. well if Amschel Rothschild said it has to be true! I mean he only lived about 150 years ago. Lets ask Ken Lay how that worked out for him.

Mr Lay... oh right... sentenced then convicted.



let me quote to you one of my favorites

"It is the perogative of fools and children to point out the emperor has no clothes, but the fool remains a fool, and the emperor remains the emperor."

In this story which are you Patrick? Are you the fool? Or the child. My vote is for the fool.



Great I could care less, I just tell the truth I don't try to insert wifes on peoples lives to make them look bad.

You are the one who has previously said you wanted to see your wife again. Or do you now deny that?


Eric when are you gonna post that evidence that bin laden did it, the evidence that proves you right and me wrong?


How about... his video taped confession!

oh right.

:)

See Patrick, the burden of proof isn't on me. Its on you. So lets clear that up right quick. The burden of proof... on you. So if you cant find Bin Laden's tapes convincing, how about the video taped suicide messages by some of those hijackers?

Provide proof that it was anything that you say, that it was an inside job. Anything at all.

Try to do it without quoting 80 year old mayors gone by while you're at it too.

So lets see it there Patrick.

LO!L!O!L!OL!O!L!O!LO!L!O!L!O!L!Ob fucking idiot.

LO? Look out? Look out?

Why would you repeat this endlessly? Did you mean LOL!

*slaps* Grow up Patrick, you're endless avoiding all the flaws I've pointed out to you gets tiring. Why dont you get a little wiser and admit that there are great many things that you do not know about.

At the end of the day Patrick you're still a coward, and you call me a fucking idiot or anything you want, but it does not change the fact that you are a coward.

Do you hear that sound? Its laughter Patrick, the world isn't laughing with you though... its laughing at you.

Eric said...


So If the CIA has mind control, what do you now think about who shot JFK? LOL OLOLOL OLOL


LOLOLOLOLOLO

Wow do you have any idea how stupid typing that out makes someone sound?

God, I feel dumber already.

But who do I think shot JFK? The evidence is pretty overwhelming that it was Oswald.

Personally the fascination with JFK comes from the simple fear of people who do not want to accept that Kennedy could be gunned down by someone as isignificant as Oswald seemed.

Nothing about the Kennedy assassination stands out entirely odd, no real problems with it.

The simple reality is that Oswald could more then easily have carried out the assassination and it was well within his ability to do so.

Eric said...

ok thomas - you have no clue or idea about prescott bush do you? sieg heil thomas,

Ahh because Prescott Bush may have provided money to Hitler you feel that this somehow means something 60 years later and insist that it implicates... ... well I guess the entire Bush family for the rest of their ... lives... right?

Perhaps you care to present evidence that ties Prescotts son and grandson into the same dealings?

Of course this definitely proves that Bush was involved in 911...

Probably had nazi help too... those bastards.

patrick cm said...

well eric, you obviously want to be an idiot. but you are still full of shit.

your critical thinking skills have lead you to believe that CNN reporters are better at finding outlaws than the military, hahaha

"Amazing! Wow, did you take the first level of Economics 101 to come to this conclusion? tell me what have you done to affect any change in the country?"

I can't change other people, the only person i can affect any change in is me and I do that.

"Notice that Patrick rails against the 'establishment' but is unwilling to lift a finger to do anything to change it. "

Of course I won't lift a finger to do anything to change it, what am I gonna do? Replace the tyrant with another tyrant that is me? All I can do is change myself I can't force freedom on people because then i'll just have an iraq situation.

Mark my words right now, Hillary will win.

The Rothschild family owns the federal reserve, they collect the income tax you work so hard for.

"It is the perogative of fools and children to point out the emperor has no clothes, but the fool remains a fool, and the emperor remains the emperor."

The fool remains a fool because people would rather believe the emperor than to know the truth for themselves.

"See Patrick, the burden of proof isn't on me. Its on you. So lets clear that up right quick. "

So I have to prove my side, but you don't have to prove your side? And you believe in your side without any proof or evidence? Video tapes are nice and all, but I'll make a video tape confession that I did 9/11, so that proves I did it then.

"Nothing about the Kennedy assassination stands out entirely odd, no real problems with it. "

So a government on the record for conducting mind control experiments, couldn't have mind controled oswald to shot JFK? Why not?

Here is a video of the secret service receiving a stand down order, had the order not been carried out JFK would probably not have been shot.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

So Oswald made the secret service stand down? And bin laden made NORAD stand down?

what does bill hicks social commentator have to say about JFK?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=11Fl9ZVJ7B8

So Bush and Hitler

A BBC Radio 4 investigation sheds new light on a major subject that has received little historical attention, the conspiracy on behalf of a group of influential powerbrokers, led by Prescott Bush, to overthrow FDR and implement a fascist dictatorship in the U.S. based around the ideology of Mussolini and Hitler.

In 1933, Marine Corps Maj.-Gen. Smedley Butler was approached by a wealthy and secretive group of industrialists and bankers, including Prescott Bush the current President's grandfather, who asked him to command a 500,000 strong rogue army of veterans that would help stage a coup to topple then President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

I'd say was successfull, it just took a few years.

Then there is the whole Al Gore, Armand Hammer connection that really makes communism look like a ruse for social control.

max power said...

youtube - the reference of choice for morons, crackpots and idiots.

New Zealand -all the sheep patrick can backup aginst the cliffs!

Eli said...

In 1933, Marine Corps Maj.-Gen. Smedley Butler was approached by a wealthy and secretive group of industrialists and bankers, including Prescott Bush the current President's grandfather, who asked him to command a 500,000 strong rogue army of veterans that would help stage a coup to topple then President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

I'd say was successfull, it just took a few years.

You realize he died of polio in 1945, right?

You're sick, Patrick. Your brain is not functioning properly. Stop posting on the internet and seek psychiatric help.

patrick cm said...

insults over the internet

Eric said...

well eric, you obviously want to be an idiot.

Its hard to take anyone as foolish as you ... calling anyone else an idiot seriously. so insult away. It doesnt take much to refute just about everything you have brought up, personally I think I've pushed you down into revealing just how much hate and contempt you have for nearly all people and how you secretly loathe yourself for being such an inneffectual nitwit.


your critical thinking skills have lead you to believe that CNN reporters are better at finding outlaws than the military,

Actually my critical thinking skills have led me to believe that if Bin Laden wants a forum he knows where to find it and that its also important to note that the US Military had a decent idea of where he was located or at least the training camps in Afghanistan. However, there is no reason to believe that they were eager to risk an international crisis.

Apparently your critical thinking skills are rather limited, thank god no one ever elected you to a position of power.

I can't change other people, the only person i can affect any change in is me and I do that.

The voice of a coward.


Of course I won't lift a finger to do anything to change it, what am I gonna do?


Further signs of coward and a lack of thinking as well. What are you going to do? The interesting thing is that you would rather flee... run across the world... to a place you can convince yourself you're free at.

Replace the tyrant with another tyrant that is me?

Translation: you are a coward.

All I can do is change myself I can't force freedom on people because then i'll just have an iraq situation.

You cant force freedom on anyone? Hahaha. As if you have freedom to offer. All your line of thinkign would do is enslave people to stupidity.


Mark my words right now, Hillary will win.

Wow, thats a hell of a prediction. And if it does come to pass that will mean what? That you were right all along?

*eyeroll*



The Rothschild family owns the federal reserve,

HAHAHAH. Oh that is rich. No they do not. You've been reading a little too much conspiracy books again. Smoking that rich hobbit smoke down there in New Zealand?

Its always interesting to see just how many conspiracy theories people like you believe, but apaprently there is no end to the foolishness that you buy into.

Currently sitting members of the board:

Ben Bernanke
Donald Kohn
Kevin Warsh
Randall Kroszner
Frederic Mishkin

The fool remains a fool because people would rather believe the emperor than to know the truth for themselves.


Now heres the interesting thing about all of this, the fool remains a fool because he is a fool. He was always a fool, and to be honest no one really follows the fool. Why would they?

But lets draw out the analogy in another way. We have on one hand the 911 twoof movement, and as I've been doing here, there is no evidence to back it up. None zero zilch. Essentially it has no clothes. So people point out it has none. But like you said, but some people... idiots basically... would rather believe without thinking.

You are one of those people Patrick.

You would rather believe in the stupidity of the twoof movement, then to take a long hard look at it and see it for what it is. An emperor without clothes. Dressed up by con artists and then passed around.

Do you honestly think that you are the first group of people to be critical of the government? To accuse them of any number of unsubstantiated rumors?

Conspiracy theories are the oldest of attempts to undestand. If you believe in the stupidity of 911 twoof, then you have to believe in the stupidity of JFK assassinations, and Chem trails, and Pearl Harbor, and the Business Plot.

But whats curiously lacking in almost all of these are the simplistic and narrowminded view points they espouse.

They all almost lack a motive. For what purpose are all these conspiracies happening for? For a Lex Luthor type goal of controlling the planet? Its a simplistic and nihilistic view point, it shows just how much contempt one has to have to believe in such stupidity.

One thing that you have to realize, and I doubt you ever will, is that people do not act rational.


So I have to prove my side, but you don't have to prove your side?

I'm backed up by the entirety of the NIST report, the majority of engineers, and physicists, and of course the video tapes of bin laden admitting responsibility. You are backed up by... a lack of evidence, no credible scientists, and quotes from long dead businessmen that have no real bearing on anything remotely resembling 911. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you had any evidence dont you think

And you believe in your side without any proof or evidence?

No I believe in the official investigation BECAUSE of proof and evidence.

Video tapes are nice and all, but I'll make a video tape confession that I did 9/11,

You do that. I'll eagerly look forward to it. You know... how you did it an such. I'll give you a handful of dollars too if you when the police come for you, you resist and yell 'Don't tase me bro!" right before they tase you.

Ok? Great. the thing is Patrick by saying ... give me proof, you aren't exactly helping yourself.

If the wealth of information out there doesnt prove it for you, if you doubt the NIST report, and the investigations by the various other groups, then nothing will prove it for you. You are doing the equivalent of a 2 year old clapping their hands over their ears and screaming at the top of their voice to try and drown out more rational thought. If that works for you... then great.

So I cannot prove to someone who doesnt want to listen that it happened like the government said, but I can prove that the lies of the 911 twoof movement are just that...

Lies.

so that proves I did it then.

Great, post it on youtube, I'm sure some idiots will believe you.


So a government on the record for conducting mind control experiments,

The CIA reported that the experiments were unsucessful.

couldn't have mind controled oswald to shot JFK? Why not?

Provide a single shred of evidence that they did. This is the leap in logic you are making. CIA did some experiments on Mindcontrol, there fore they did the kennedy assassination. How about you provide some evidence that they DID do what you said?


Here is a video of the secret service receiving a stand down order, had the order not been carried out JFK would probably not have been shot.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8


You see ... the fun thing about that video is how it manipulates you. You arent left to see what happened you are told what happens. The guy in the serious sounding voice manipulates you into believing any number of things that he wants you to believe. But whats very curious about it... is that we're not entirely sure where this video was taken. Of course you do believe the guy in the serious sounding voice without any sort of proof. He says they were ordered to stand down.... but to what purpose? The best part about it is the sound of the Taps music playing as it oh so cleverly intuits that Kennedy would not have been shot had they not stood down.

*face plant*

The truth is that the president was not left undefended.


So Oswald made the secret service stand down?

No, the secret service never stood down. Perhaps you could start to think for yourself in the future? Instead of relying on a spooky voice narrator to tell you what to think ? ... You think you could do that? Yeah... you do that.

And bin laden made NORAD stand down?


Norad stood down? Perhaps you could explain the planes that were dispatched by NEADS minutes after the first hijacking was reported?

I'll be waiting for you to try to explain how NORAD stood down while at the same time they dispatched planes. Honestly this line of thinking by twoofers is one of the most idiotic I've read.

what does bill hicks social commentator have to say about JFK?

Bill Hicks... COMEDIAN.

*slap*

Multiple slaps for being a frigging idiot as well.

Thats twice you've attempted to pass off a comedian as someone to be respected. Honestly the wide range of conspiracy theories that you believe in is growing comical. I imagine you believe in chem trails too ?

My god, you do so love to rely on the words of others, you gullibility knows know bounds. Apparently you will believe anything if someone dresses it up in some scary sounding music with a sinister voice, and accompanies it with the taps music!


As far as Bush, the entirety of the investigation by BBC4 seems to rely on Butler, and there is no reason to take his words over those of others.

"Most people agreed with Mayor La Guardia of New York in dismissing it as a "cocktail putsch"... As for the House committee, headed by John McCormack of Massachusetts, it declared itself "able to verify all the pertinent statements made by General Butler" except for MacGuire's direct proposal to him, and it considered this more or less confirmed by MacGuire's European reports. No doubt MacGuire did have some wild scheme in mind, though the gap between contemplation and execution was considerable and it can hardly be supposed that the republic was in much danger.""

A historian :) Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr.

You know... not a comedian?

Eric said...

insults over the internet

From the guy who said this:

well eric, you obviously want to be an idiot. but you are still full of shit.

its always interesting to see the total lack of ability that you expose when you refuse to back up anything you say.

You post it, claim it as fact, and then when called on it, the best you can come back with is one of two things:

1. An insult.
2. Another conspiracy theory.

This is why I hold you in such contempt Patrick.

patrick cm said...

" guy in the serious sounding voice without any sort of proof"

That guy is william cooper, he also predicted 9/11 before it happened on his radio show, then after 9/11 he was murdered by police. Curious how one could predict 9/11 if it were a none staged event.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2tZPRBjU8n4

ALso I never said I don't insult anyone, if you read what i say i obviously do insult people. The point of the comment was that while I insult people, I also put information in my comment so as it isn't worthless.

I haven't reade much of what you said but seriously it's just blah blah blah blah, whatever eric, you wanna be an idiot

Eric said...

That guy is william cooper, he also predicted 9/11 before it happened on his radio show, then after 9/11 he was murdered by police. Curious how one could predict 9/11 if it were a none staged event.

Dear god, you are an idiot.

"There were warrants for his arrest on charges of tax evasion and bank fraud. "

"Cooper said he would meet with armed resistance any attempt to execute what he saw as "unlawful warrants." Later a warrant was issued for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon,"

"In July and September 2001, Cooper was accused of using a handgun to threaten passersby near his home in Eagar, Arizona.'


You see conspiracy in everything. I personally see a deranged man.

its amusing how many people you seem to wrap up into these conspiracy theories of yours. So now lets add the Apache County sheriff office and the arresting office to the list of conspiracy people.

Of course Cooper wounded one deputy, but lets not let that little significant detail escape.

Lets not forget that this is the same federal government that never killed Dylan Avery, but of course now... NOW they actually killed a judge who made a vague suggestion about a terrorist attack, but they STILL fail to murder three losers!

This is some conspiracy theory and it seems to involve all levels of government.

I insult people, I also put information in my comment so as it isn't worthless.

I beg to differ, almost all your posts are completely worthless and filled to the brim with some of the most idiotic ramblings that have ever graced an internet board.

Honestly you are a sham of a conspiracist and like the above little comment about William Cooper being murdered, you only pick and choose what you want to believe. You rarely look at the bigger story.

patrick cm said...

murder does imply an unlawfull action, i should have used the word Killed, i thought it ment the same thing.

did you know there is no law that says you have to pay income tax?

dude, if your oposition was the loose change crew? why would you murder them? they actually probably help you because they look so stupid honestly whats wrong with you?

"its amusing how many people you seem to wrap up into these conspiracy theories of yours. So now lets add the Apache County sheriff office and the arresting office to the list of conspiracy people."

if they can explode two building on live television and get away with it, why is involving a few cops in their conspiracy beyond them? can we use our brains here eric?

The conspiracy also involves every country in the world and has gone on since history, the world leaders of today still follow babylonian style relgious ceremonies. IF you don't believe that I can prove it.

nice try though eric. well not really you are pretty dense.

Max Power said...

"did you know there is no law that says you have to pay income tax?"

And there is no moon either you fucking loser???

Thank you for leaving - stay the hell out please.

patrick cm said...

show me the law please.

patrick cm said...

NO INCOME TAX LAW FORMER "IRS" AGENT JOE BANNISTER PART 1


http://youtube.com/watch?v=GKePl2gW_3M

thank you max power for ruining the economy of America because you like to drink beer and watch football games.

patrick cm said...

shit max, maybe one IRS agent isn't good enough for you?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s1UT2Ms5E2k&feature=related

so do you think you can help educate people that 9/11 was a fraud and maybe we could live in a free country. please help max.

patrick cm said...

The Rothschild family owns the federal reserve,

HAHAHAH. Oh that is rich. No they do not. You've been reading a little too much conspiracy books again. Smoking that rich hobbit smoke down there in New Zealand?

Its always interesting to see just how many conspiracy theories people like you believe, but apaprently there is no end to the foolishness that you buy into.

Currently sitting members of the board:

Ben Bernanke
Donald Kohn
Kevin Warsh
Randall Kroszner
Frederic Mishkin

Members of the board = ownership? um i don't think so.

If you watched the money masters like I told you to 70 posts ago, you would know who owns the federal reserve and you would have saved yourself from being wrong and a fool.

Max Power said...

"one IRS agent" and a youtube video - DAMN! How can anyone argue with that!!!

Sure douchebag - as soon as as you turds prove it was.

Max Power said...

patrick - I actually watched that joke of a video you posted - you are truly an idiot if you think anything that ignorant bitch says.

Now hurry up and get me a slice of that moon cheese - it's lunchtime!

patrick cm said...

"one IRS agent" and a youtube video - DAMN! How can anyone argue with that!!!

Sure douchebag - as soon as as you turds prove it was.

this doesn't make sense, and I bosted two different IRS agents saying the same thing, So you know more about Taxes than IRS agents? Great max. just great.

Max Power said...

"So you know more about Taxes than IRS agents? Great max. just great"

Yes dickhead I do - 18 years at KPMG and PWC and I still haven't met an "IRS agent" that knew what they were doing.

When I graduated from Univ. of Illinois in 1989 the top accounting students went to the Big 8, the next level when to the second tier firms (i.e. BDO and GT) the next level went to top tier regional firms. I never met a person that actually went to work for the Service that wanted to.

youtube videos of moronic ex IRS agents!!! TOO FUCKING FUNNY!!!!

This country is so better off with you dumbass not here. Can you talk to your family into leaving too - there is still a stench here and I believe it's them.

Where's my moon cheese looser?

Max Power said...

"patrick cm"

Is this fuckwad for real? There are actual debates going on regarding this shitbag - whether he is for real or just a troll.

cm - it's got to be for conspriacy moron - it can't be anything else.

patrick cm said...

The path of least resistance describes the physical or metaphorical pathway that provides the least resistance to forward motion by a given object or entity, among a set of alternative paths

In physics, the path of least resistance is always taken by objects moving through a system.

the path of least resistance is not a steel frame building, i'm sorry,

patrick cm said...

max power please show me the law.

Max Power said...

Have at it Sport

http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#law

Don't forget to check out IRC Sec. 180 - this seems to be your specialty!

BTW do you pay taxes in NZ? Have you given up your US citizenship?

If YES/NO - then here is a gift for you lunarboy:

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/index.html

Enjoy!

Max Power said...

patrick - Got anymore wisdom from Joe Banister???

Here is a great read!

http://www.quatlosers.com/joe_banister.htm

patrick cm said...

show me a statute that allows a direct unaportioned tax on the american people

grace commission's report 1984

patrick cm said...

http://www.whatistaxed.com/

thanks for the info max, insults are fine and all, I just want information.

Max Power said...

Great - the twisted reading of IRC Sec. 861...

"More specifically, section 861 is in Part I of Subchapter N, and Part I is titled “Source Rules and Other General Rules Relating to Foreign Income.” The other parts of Subchapter N are titled “Nonresident Aliens and Foreign Corporations,” “Income from Sources Without the United States,” “Domestic International Sales Corporations,” and “International Boycott Determinations.” Are you beginning to see a pattern?"

Max Power said...

patrick - do you really believe there is no moon?

Max Power said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Banister

This is your "expert"??? - He's an insane piece of shit just like you.

You never did answer my questions about paying NZ taxes and your citizenship.

I want to make sure you will NEVER come back to my country.

patrick cm said...

On October 12, 2006, actor Wesley Snipes was charged in a superseding indictment with one count of conspiracy to defraud the United States under 18 U.S.C. § 371, one count of making or aiding and abetting the making of a false and fraudulent claim for payment against the United States, under 18 U.S.C. § 287 and 18 U.S.C. § 2, and six counts of willfully failing to timely file Federal income tax returns under 26 U.S.C. § 7203. The indictment alleged that Snipes had refused to pay taxes under a section 861 argument. If found guilty, Snipes could face up to sixteen years in prison on the charges. The trial began on Monday, January 14, 2008, in Ocala, Florida.

I never said there was no moon. I just think that it's improbable that the moon and sun appear as the same size in our sky and mirror eachothers movements in the sky? Also the moon is calibrated to affect our weather in a way that is most beneficial to us, it makes our winters warmer and our summers cooler.

Max Power said...

patrick - the 861 arguement is BS - me, you and the soon to be convicted felon wesley snipes all know it.

"I just think that it's improbable that the moon and sun appear as the same size in our sky"

Look! I'm crushing the moon!!!

http://joeyedmonds.com/images/header_r.jpg

patrick cm said...

the federal reserve is also poison to america, me you and the soon to be convicted felon wesley snipes all know it.

Max Power said...

You're not here - you don't count.

patrick cm said...

Robert Stevens (d. October 5, 2001) was a photo editor for the Florida based tabloid, Sun, employed by American Media Inc. He was the first fatality linked to the 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States. He died of pulmonary anthrax after inhaling anthrax spores from a letter that is believed to have arrived at the American Media offices in Boca Raton, Florida. He was 63 years old.

His wife, Maureen Stevens, is suing the government for lax security, because she states DNA testing would prove the particular strain used in this attack comes from the US Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) at Fort Detrick. The case has been held up on grounds of 'national security'.

You don't count either, only the federal reserve makes decisions, not your sorry ass.

Max Power said...

I'm not little pussy who ran away go fuck sheep.

Now go watch some more youtube and further "educate" yourself you gullible piece of shit.

Max Power said...

pussy patrick is a complete piece of shit wimp.

We start by discussing the requirement to pay taxes - he gets his ass kicked there so he brings up the federal reserve. Another arguement with no backbone so he now moves on to anthrax...

Meanwhile the moon is still made of cheese and patricks family is still celibrating his departure.

Eric said...


did you know there is no law that says you have to pay income tax?

Do you exist on you tube and once challenged someone to provide you with the law and that they would pay out $50,000 to do that?

Lets play a game -

What is the 16th Amendment?

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Oh.

Well Patrick.... what do you say?

Eric said...

It is truly sad that you believe half of what you say. Do you watch these videos and shut off your mind?

The Path of least resistance? Did you ever hold that anvil over your head and see if it slid off you?

No Patrick, you're an idiot.

You know nothing about physics, but you still continously spout off about it.

When proven wrong, you just say.... well they were in on it.

Honestly, you are sad, you are pathetic, the depth of the contempt I have for you knows no bounds.

You believe anything anyone ever tells you.

I would love to explore what it is you think about the moon and the sun.

Max Power said...

patrick - time go go over and shit all over a new thread...

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