Tuesday, February 12, 2008

Sorry to Burst Your Bubble, Justin

So Justin Martelll has challenged me to a debate. Since he's young, he assumed that MySpace would be the best place to lay out the actual challenge (despite me posting here more regularly), but I really have better things to do with my time than surf around on MySpace. I actually found out about it on 9/11 Blogger, which covers this as "news," although I never remember them covering my Letter of Resignation back in September.


Here's the challenge:
Would you be interested in debating Mike Jackman and I on a radio show next Friday? We promise to give you equal time, etc. The topic I'd like to discuss is whether or not the 9/11 Commission provided "the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9/11," and whether or not the commission, along with individuals and departments within our government are participating in a cover up in regard to 9/11.

If this sounds like something that interests you please message me back. However, if you're just going to spend the hour attacking my character and making unfounded accusations that I have somehow been a incompetent leader of www. sst911. org then you need not bother.

I look forward to hearing back from you and hope you accept my invitation.

P. S. The station is 91. 3 WKNH in Keene, NH and has quite a few listeners...

Justin Martell
www. sst911. org "


For the record, Justin, I will gladly debate you anytime, anywhere, so long as it fits into my schedule. Unfortunately, I work on Fridays and there's no way of getting out of it. Perhaps we can reschedule. But, if you ever actually want this to happen, I suggest you retract all your BS about me being a coward from Blogger and wherever the hell else you posted it. That might show some intellectual integrity.

And also, it's going to be me vs. you, one-on-one, not because I can't handle the two of you, but more because I can't stand the sight of Jackman. Yeah, I know you want a little phone interview on your own turf, but I'd much rather do it in person. How about in neutral ground like NYC?

Damn Justin, do you have a life? You've spent the last 5 days screaming from the rooftops that I haven't accepted your internet challenge. Do you have a job? Do you focus on your schoolwork at all? Girlfriend? Friends, for that matter? What do you have to say now that I accepted your challenge?

461 comments:

1 – 200 of 461   Newer›   Newest»
Justin Martell said...

Mikey,

I'm glad you accepted the debate challenge. Unfortunately, I live in New Hampshire so I don't go to NYC often. Can we reschedule for the radio? As I said, I promise to give you fair time, etc. I don't know if you've ever seen the debate I did with some OCT's on my school's t.v. last year? That was on my own television show (my "turf) and I was more than fair.

As far as calling you a coward, if I were you I'd ask the people who post in the comments section of this blog not to answer for you. I was merely responding to their unfounded, pseudo-intellectual, hypocrisy. I'm not sorry for the way I responded to people who have tried to speak for you, however, I am sorry if what I said offended you. I never took you to be a cowar, that's why I was surprised when I didn't hear back from you.

As far as my studies and girlfriend are concerned, things are just fine in that department. Why don't you ask the poster "Eric" in the comments section the same questions? I have only been paying so much attention to this because I've had to respond to his ridiculous character assassination attempts. Does he have a job? Wife? Kids? I mean, come on, Mikey.

Anyway, are you only willing to debate in person? Or is there any way we can work this out for the radio? Perhaps a different radio show with a more "neutral" host (although I don't know where we'd find a neutral host on this subject)? I'm also willing to make it just you and I, no Jackman (also, you're not really the best looking so just chill. What we look like has nothing to do with this at all, this is a clash of ideas not a beauty contest).

So how about it? No Jackman. Just you and I. I can also reschedule the radio for a different day (preferably Mondays or Wednesdays). This may be my "turf," but again, you have my word that you will be given equal time and respect. Deal?

If you want to email me to get this set in stone my email is Martellj@franklinpierce.edu.

The ball is in your court.

Justin Martell said...

spelling correction:

"I never took you to be a cowar"

needs to be changed to:

"I never took you to be a coward"

justine martel said...

"I'm a complete fucking dickhead"

is fine as is

Justin Martell said...

OOOH!! YOU GOT ME!!!

MikeyMetz said...

Retract your story from 911Blogger, and we'll discuss a new date for the radio debate.

Max power said...

Problem is numbnuts - nobody wants you - you're a joke - nothing more - nothing less...

Justin Martell said...

"Problem is numbnuts - nobody wants you - you're a joke - nothing more - nothing less..."

Well then why are Mikey and I negotiating a debate? Piss off. You're not even witty enough to be a debunker.

Anyway, Mikey I will post a new blog entry with your response to me and mine back to you. I'll also add the following:

"I retract any statements that I made in my previous post that gave the impression that Metz is too cowardly to debate."

Will that do? I mean, I never said that you wouldn't accept, I just asked you to "show up or shut up." It was other posters on blogger that said you wouldn't, and any other comments I made on your blog were in response to an individual attempting to speak for you, so you'll have to take it up with him. Again, I do apologize for any comments that gave the impression that you wouldn't accept.

Can we get this show on the road now?

Anonymous said...

Mikey Metz minions=HIDEOUS

Huy said...

I'd be willing to donate 5 dollars (broke college student) for traveling expenses for either party to meet up. Television debate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> radio debate.

ready...FIGHT!

Justin Martell said...

Mikey,

I posted an update with the retraction of any comments I made that insinuated that you are a coward on 911blogger. They have not posted it yet...I'll post it here when they do.

Pat said...

Mikey, we'll be rooting for you! Remember, 9-11 Myths is your friend in a debate; saves having to memorize all the minutiae they'll be throwing at you. You're very smart to ask for a one-on-one debate.

The only negative about debating the Truthers is that if you do well, you won't get asked to do it again. :)

Eric said...

The problem I always found with twoofers is their inability to stick to one point. They constantly move and change the goal posts, and consistently change their stories at the drop of a hat or point to flawed research as if it was somehow real.

If you do a debate, I hope you can point out how irrational most twoofers tend to be and how poor their sources are.

Boris Epstein said...

Mikey,

Last I checked you weren't exactly old yourself. Now, to really win a debate you may want to do analysis a bit deeper. Judging somebody's personal life based on a few non-related internet posts - now that, in my opinion, is shallow. Unfortunately, your analysis of 9/11 does not appear to be deeper than that as far as I can tell - but I'd be happy to be proven wrong here.

Justin Martell said...

"The topic I'd like to discuss is whether or not the 9/11 Commission provided "the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9/11," and whether or not the commission, along with individuals and departments within our government are participating in a cover up in regard to 9/11."

Eric, I will not be changing the goal posts. What I just quoted here is the topic I have asked Metz to debate.

"The problem I always found with twoofers is their inability to stick to one point. They constantly move and change the goal posts, and consistently change their stories at the drop of a hat or point to flawed research as if it was somehow real."

And lumping me in with poor researchers and debaters within the movement will make this debate more enlightening how? If I wanted to I could harp on about unscrupulous behavior from your side of things that Mikey didn't even participate in and try to act like he's connected with those individuals. It's completely unproductive.

Mikey, here's the post you asked for:
http://www.911blogger.com/node/13860

Now can we do this instead of beating around this bush?

Eric said...

"The topic I'd like to discuss is whether or not the 9/11 Commission provided "the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9/11," and whether or not the commission, along with individuals and departments within our government are participating in a cover up in regard to 9/11."

This would be one of the silliest topics to discuss that you could come up with and one that really is utterly pointless and ignores the largely issue. This is nothing but a typical twoofer trying to focus on the area that he thinks he could most win at because it is probably one of the vaguest areas in the entire 9/11 history.

It also ignores the wealth of information from the various studies such as the NIST and really the substantive work of all of the people involved in the factual investigation.

The 9/11 Commission was mainly designed to look into the intelligence failings and the circumstances surrounding the 9/11 attacks. To make a case about what you are alleging you would first have to prove that there were some sort of controlled demolitions present at the sites of which there is no evidence of at all. A lot of what you will no doubt allege could be no more then others covering their asses.

It is amusing that you would pick that rather then the more substantive bit of work from the NIST.

And lumping me in with poor researchers and debaters within the movement will make this debate more enlightening how?

Its doubtful it will be a debate of any kind considering what you have chosen, more of a farce. As far as lumping you in with others, you have not shown any indication to not lump you in with them, in fact you have given me every indication that you ARE one of them. Beyond that, your inability to answer the very simple question I asked points to me to the moral and intellectual cowardice that I accused you of, and it is one that I stand by with a great amount of amusement.

But I figure you to be one of those amusing LIHOP type of people especially given your insistence at looking at the 9/11 commission report versus the NIST.

The amusing truth there is that you could argue endlessly about it, and never get anywhere. Just like the people who still insist that Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor and let it happen.

Justin Martell said...

"This is nothing but a typical twoofer trying to focus on the area that he thinks he could most win at because it is probably one of the vaguest areas in the entire 9/11 history."

And how is what you're saying any different? You're bitching that I don't want to discuss the NIST report because that is an area where a debunker is most likely to win. So how does that make you any different (and please refrain from the self loving "it makes me different because I'm right blah blah")? Again, I can't believe you had the audacity to lecture me about intellectual hypocrisy.

Justin Martell said...

and no, this is area is not vague at all. I'd like to see you try to tell that to one of the Jersey Girls or one of the other family members who fought for the creation of the commission and later called the report "utterly hollow." Do you think the family members deserve to have their questions answered, Eric?

Eric said...

and no, this is area is not vague at all. I'd like to see you try to tell that to one of the Jersey Girls or one of the other family members who fought for the creation of the commission and later called the report "utterly hollow." Do you think the family members deserve to have their questions answered, Eric?

oh the faux patriotism so often evoked by the twoofers.

/yawn

Spare me your notions of patriotism while the flag waves in the background and you stand there proudly looking serene.

*eyeroll*

Do I think they deserve to have their answers questioned?

*shrug*

Do I care? No not really to be honest. If they get their questions answered, then good for them, if they do not then well time to move on as well. What are you going to live forever and worry about what may have been?

Is it going to make your day a little better if you can point your fingers at the incompetence of government officials?

Will it make the dead rise?

No of course not.

They know that.

So still showing your cowardice, you try to use them as your shield.

But then again... I expected little more then that from you Justin

Eric said...

You're bitching that I don't want to discuss the NIST report because that is an area where a debunker is most likely to win.

The NIST report dealt mainly with facts, the 9/11 Commission was a political committee, driven by politics, and more.

Now whats interesting is that you actually do concede the point, unwittingly or not, that you did choose the 911 Commission for the specific reason that it is a vague area. That you feel it is the best area for you to win. In the same breath you also concede that the NIST report which deals with the FACTUAL happenings of what occurred on 9/11 would overcome your.... what is it you say you do again? Research?

Score another one for me :)

So how does that make you any different

Facts? Evidence? All of that stuff that you seem to lack. You would rather argue rhetoric. As opposed to the factual happenings of the day. To you its more important that we go into political infightings, and whether or not the Senators asked the right questions ... about what? Put Options? Whether or not that the NEADS should've responded faster then the 4 minutes it took them ?

What exactly is it that you think the 9/11 Commission reveals?

(and please refrain from the self loving "it makes me different because I'm right blah blah")?

I am right :)

Again, I can't believe you had the audacity to lecture me about intellectual hypocrisy.

Oh, you show it with every post you make, every time you post in response, you prove me more and more correct about you.

You're hypocrisy is startling, you admitted it right here on this page. With these very words.

You're bitching that I don't want to discuss the NIST report because that is an area where a debunker is most likely to win.

Do you want me to show them again?

You're bitching that I don't want to discuss the NIST report because that is an area where a debunker is most likely to win.

Thank you for proving my point about your intellectual cowardice.
What makes it even more rich, is that you then go on to hide behind the Jersey girls and cement my opinion about your moral cowardice as well.

Justin A. Martell said...

"Do I care? No not really to be honest. If they get their questions answered, then good for them, if they do not then well time to move on as well."

Did you lose someone on 9/11? Did you have to bury your child or spouse? You disgust me, Eric.

"What are you going to live forever and worry about what may have been?"

I'm not worrying about what could may have been. I'm worrying about what never was. The family members have never had closure. How can you sit there and say that those most affected by what has been described as the pivotal event of this century so far don't deserve to have closure?

You see, Eric. You were not there, you didn't lobby our elected officials for an investigation that the Bush Administration never wanted and opposed, you did not provide the Commission with hundreds of well researched questions that were never asked, you did not fight to get the Commission Subpoena power which it never evoked, you did not read the report and determine that 70% of your questions as to how your loved one died were not answered, you did not, after receiving a joke of an explanation as to how your loved one(s) died, call the report "utterly hollow" and question the "entire veracity" of the report. These family members know what they're talking about no matter how many of them there are. Your smug conclusion that it doesn't matter whether or not is repulsive. What's wrong with accountability, justice, and closure?

"What makes it even more rich, is that you then go on to hide behind the Jersey girls and cement my opinion about your moral cowardice as well."

I love how you can't even see your own intellectual hypocrisy. You accuse me of hiding behind the Jersey Girls while you hide behind the NIST report because somehow if the conclusions of the NIST report are correct then somehow 9/11 wasn't allowed to happen? Or the family members have had their questions answered? I steer away from controlled demolition not because I embody the moral cowardice of which you accuse me of, but rather, because I feel that the movement has lost sight of it's goal, justice and accountability. We have had neither. Can we have real investigation now?

Justin Martell said...

Correction, the Commission did evoke its subpoena power twice. However, they sent "document requests" for everything else.

Eric said...

Did you lose someone on 9/11? Did you have to bury your child or spouse? You disgust me, Eric.

*yawn*

Oh look... still hiding behind the coattails of people. Trying to evoke the pity of people. Sorry Justin, its not going to work and let me clue you in on something. You completely deserve this. So take it like a man.

/slap

There.

Get over your self righteous indignation.


I'm not worrying about what could may have been. I'm worrying about what never was.

And what never was?

Who appointed you lead spokesmen for them? Who handed you a bullhorn and said that it was your duty to stand up for them?

The family members have never had closure.

They had closure when they laid their family members to rest. They brought it to the public, and like Sheehan and others, they brought their pain to the public because they simply do not like the answers they were told. And be bringing it to the public they also opened themselves up for criticism, just because they lost people, does not make them immune to it.



How can you sit there and say that those most affected by what has been described as the pivotal event of this century so far don't deserve to have closure?

They had their closure, they want what cannot be provided.


You were not there,

Neither were you. Or were you? Does it really matter? Who cares!

you didn't lobby our elected officials for an investigation that the Bush Administration never wanted and opposed,

Ohhhhhh here we go and your point here is what? That there is some sort of coverup because the Administration didn't really want someone taking a critical look at its incompetence? Big frigging deal. Are you so naive to not see through this? Jeez.


you did not provide the Commission with hundreds of well researched questions that were never asked,

All this 'you did not' 'you did not'. Blah blah. Honestly, your little game of accusations and hiding and moral cowardice just gets more and more amusing. That were never answered? Last time I checked, I thought it was around 22 questions that were never answered? Or are you inflating numbers here to try and make yourself look a bit more intelligent then you really are?


you did not fight to get the Commission Subpoena power which it never evoked,

And? Again here, whats your point?

you did not read the report and determine that 70% of your questions as to how your loved one died were not answered,

I'm about 99% certain that the way their loved ones died was either in the collapse of a building or in the crash of a jetliner.


call the report "utterly hollow" and question the "entire veracity" of the report.

*eyeroll*

Let me cut you off.

You know what - I think you need another one of these.

/slap

There you go. Do you feel better now? Get it all out of your system? Done with your litle hysterical ranting now are we?

Now maybe I am wrong. But.... You did not do any of those things either. So your self righteous indignation on behalf of others is even more repulsive then my smug conclusion about the realities of life and government. At least I do not delude myself into thinking that I am fighting for some grand cause nor do I try to mask my own shortcomings and dislike for government bureaucracy behind a veneer of self righteous indignation on the behalf of others.

Your are many things there Justin, but let me add two more to the list self righteous and naive.

To you... you see a big government coverup where all it is the stupidity of government bureaucracy. The idea that so many politicians would be involved in a coverup is simply ludicrous, and has no basis in reality.

Whats sad is that you never realized this at a point in life when most people have.

You accuse me of hiding behind the Jersey Girls

Which you do.

while you hide behind the NIST report

The NIST report is factual based, its hard to hide behind facts, they sorta... stand out.

because somehow if the conclusions of the NIST report

Are you suggesting that it was not?

are correct then somehow 9/11 wasn't allowed to happen?

You would have to provide evidence that it was allowed to happen. Something that you steadfastly have not done. You see a massive coverup, I simply see the normal incompetence of a government at work.


Or the family members have had their questions answered?

Their questions may never be answered, they may have to live with that reality. Why? Because people will work to protect themselves.

I steer away from controlled demolition not because I embody the moral cowardice of which you accuse me of,

You steer away from it because you do embody all of what I have accused you of, moral cowardice, intellectual cowardice, hypocrisy, naivety, everything that I have ascribed to you, you just continuously serve up in spades. After all you claim to be part of the twoof movement, then maybe its about time you took a look and saw what your twoof movement is, what it has become.


but rather, because I feel that the movement has lost sight of it's goal, justice and accountability.


The twoof movement was never about that, it was about casting blame on people other then the ones who perpetuated the act. It is IN FACT the anti-thesis of justice and accountability.

We have had neither.

Justice? How do you bring terrorists to justice? Or do you forget that part? Do you forget that it was islamic militants who flew planes into a building? Accountability? Hummm? What a curious notion, make those terrorists, make the islamic terrorists who did it accountable? What a bizarre idea!

No to you its more important that we cast blame on government officials. Your hatred of Bush/Cheney is more important then focusing on where the real justice and accountability needs to be gained from. Who is it more important to blame? Is it more important to sit around, and proclaim that it was allowed to happen, to sit here and type long winded messages, then it is to actually hold those who carried out the attacks accountable?

Can we have real investigation now?

Now ... lets pretend you are correct. Let us for a moment pretend that somehow it was allowed to happen through active participation. Suddenly we have another investigation... paid for by whom by the way? You? Me? Who will pay for this investigation by the by... now... we have this investigation and suddenly... these people get on the stand... and do not lie? Suddenly they are compelled to tell the truth?


See Justin, this is why I see through you to the the hypocrisy and cowardice you so richly embody. You think you are fighting some huge moral battle. But then the question really is... why aren't any of these efforts focused on the people who actually attacked us! Why is it more important to you to find out if the government didn't react appropriately to the obscure message "Bin Laden determined to attack" and to hold them accountable then it is to hold the the people who actually carried out those who attacked accountable?

Ahhh... here lies the crux. If the Jersey Girls are speaking out in their pain, for their questions to be answered, then that is their fight, and their right.

LIHOP is a cowardly path, it can be neither proven nor disproven, it will remain in the mind of people for years upon years until 9/11 fades into obscurity.

Justin Martell said...

There is nothing you can say to convince me that covering up different aspects of the 9/11 attacks is acceptable. You can not convince me that sending 9/11 First Responders knowingly to their possible deaths is acceptable. You can not convince me that the world is better off not knowing the full truth about the day that created the "Post-9/11 World". You can not convince me that ignoring the families pleas for truth is acceptable. You can not convince me that accountability is not needed in Government because a no-fault Government is dangerous.

And that is what you, Eric, are trying to do. No amount of pseudo-intellectual debunker spin is going to make me think that what I listed above are all good things.

Now, you may continue responding or not bother because now you are the one who is "dismissed." I don't have time for gnats who want to make excuses for government lies.

BTW, Mikey I met all your little demands. What's the deal?

Timmy B said...

Someone please explain to me the big fucking deal?

Look... I know Metz... He is no coward...

ALAS...

You want a "neutral" host... I will offer my services as moderator.

None better than a post-modernist.

Justin Martell said...

Timmy,

If you will be a truly neutral host then that will be fine. However, I am still wondering why there's been no response from Metz in about a week. I met his demands and there has been no word from him. Perhaps you have better access to him than I? Can you ask him whether he wants to get this thing going or back out completely?

Trajan Octavian Titus said...

I would love to debate you truther morons I've already debunked just about every point you've ever made on youtube here:

http://youtube.com/profile?user=ThomasLocke1789

I love how you truthers accuse others of being akin to Fascists while you're the ones who use the SA shout down tactics with your bullhorns and your bullshit, I'll debate any of you anytime but how about a neutral place like stickam? Do you have a webcam?

We can do this right freaking now!

Trajan Octavian Titus said...

From debunking911.com here's some figures which make the controlled demolition completely impossible:

"J.L. Hudson’s in Detroit, Michigan, the tallest building ever razed, was 439 ft. (26 stories)
http://www.implosionworld.com/records.htm

WTC 7 was 570 ft. (47 stories) 1.3 times the height of the J.L. Hudson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center

WTC 1/2 was 1,368 ft. (110 stories) 3.12 times the height of J.L. Hudson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_World_Trade_Center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_World_Trade_Center

So, on 9/11, three buildings were razed with perfect precision. One was 131 ft. taller than the record tower and the other two (minus cell phone antennas) were 929 ft. taller than the record holder.

The Hudson Building “It took us 24 days with 12 people doing nothing but loading explosives…” James Santoro – Controlled Demolition Incorporated"
http://www.history.com/media.do?id=most_hudsons_implosion_broadband&action=clip

Even according to the Loose Change guys, the heightened security and bomb-sniffing dogs had only been lifted for 5 days.


Of course, the construction is different and the towers would need less explosives if they were the same height. However, the towers were much taller and had more columns to cut as a result. Even if they did have the same amount of columns it would still take over 72 days with 12 people doing nothing but loading explosives. That's just one building. Add the second tower and WTC7 and you see where this is going. It quickly becomes absurd. As if this absurdly complex plan was the ONLY way to scare Americans."

Justin Martell said...

Trajan,

We could do this right now, you're right. However, I challenged Mikey Metz to a debate and don't have time to debate gnats in the comments section of an obscure blog. Sorry.

William said...

What ever floats your boat truther faggot, why don't you just go whack off to loose change again.

Oh and you obviously have time to respond to these comments day in and day out. It's o.k. I know you truthers are scared of the actual truth just put your hands over your ears and say to yourself "9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB 9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB 9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB" and repeat as necessary until you're squarely back in the Orwellian construct which you have created for yourself in your own imagination. If you ever change your mind I'll be here in realityville waiting.

William said...

Oops I forgot to switch back to my original screen name. For the record William = Trajan.

Justin Martell said...

"What ever floats your boat truther faggot, why don't you just go whack off to loose change again."

And again, the people who claim to be on the side of research and logic discredit themselves at every turn.

Anyway, how about it, Mikey?

William said...

You've never done research in your life outside of truther websites. How many times a day do you go to prisonplanet? Be honest.

Anonymous said...

Hey martel - your boy gravel managed 124 votes in Wisconsin today - I believe that's 7 more than your Mom's penis got.

124 out of 3,107,000 = FINISHED!

eli said...

martell I honestly don't think you or 99% of truthers have the slightest concept of what the word research actually means.

Why does 100% of you guys' "research" take place on the internet and consist of going from one conspiracy site to another?

Have you been making phone calls to people who played roles in the events of 9/11? Such as firefighters, police, government officials, etc? Have you read the NIST report? Have you read any of the thousands of available treatises, theses , and dissertations on Islamic fundamentalism and/or the jihadi movement? Have you done ANY SCIENTIFIC work, or do you really think watching youtube videos and reading truther websites is "Research"?

I understand that the average truther was 10-15 years old when 9/11 happened and it was an unprecedented shock that changed your view of the world forever, but do you understand that the fact that jihadis did this was not a surprise to anyone who was politcally or globally aware at the time? Do you understand that muslim extremists publicly delcared war on the US years before 9/11? Do you understand that they made years of public, documented threats against us and particularly against the WTC towers? Do you understand they tried to take them down in 1993 and, though they failed, they promised to try again?

Do you understand that the fact that the buildings fell after being struck and burning unfought was not a surprise to experienced firefighters and engineers?

Don't answer this without spending some time thinking about it. Do you really understand?

Justin Martell said...

"Hey martel - your boy gravel managed 124 votes in Wisconsin today - I believe that's 7 more than your Mom's penis got."

Again, the people claiming to be on the side of evidence and research completely discredit themselves.

"124 out of 3,107,000 = FINISHED!"

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps I had other reasons for supporting Mike Gravel despite whether or not he had a chance of winning the election? I love how you think this hurts me in some way.

Justin Martell said...

Eli,

I will tell you the same thing I told Eric:

"There is nothing you can say to convince me that covering up different aspects of the 9/11 attacks is acceptable. You can not convince me that sending 9/11 First Responders knowingly to their possible deaths is acceptable. You can not convince me that the world is better off not knowing the full truth about the day that created the "Post-9/11 World". You can not convince me that ignoring the families pleas for truth is acceptable. You can not convince me that accountability is not needed in Government because a no-fault Government is dangerous."

Anyway, Mikey!? Are you alive!?

eli said...

justin you completely dodged my question. Did you spend any time at all thinking about it?

What exactly is your particular brand of 9/11 "truth" - since it's different for all of you people?

Are you LIHOP, MIHOP, incompetence, what?

Your wannabe righteous indignation is not an argument at all. It's just empty fluff. You have to prove that first responders were knowingly sent to their deaths before you assert that you cannot be convinced it is acceptable. Otherwise you are arguing with a strawman. I would have a hard time accepting that too, except that I've never seen a shred of evidence that it happened; I don't think I've ever even heard that claim before.

Who sent these people to their deaths, and how did they know they would die? Are you saying there were bombs in the buildings? If so, who put them there and why is there no evidence (flashes, distinctive bangs louder than the collapse, miles of det-cord, etc.)?

Do you realize the twin towers were more than 3 times taller than the tallest building ever demolished, and that building took weeks to rig?

If you cannot produce a coherent, logically consistent, factually sound argument in writing, why would anyone bother debating you on television or the radio?

In short, just what the fuck are you trying to say?

Justin Martell said...

"In short, just what the fuck are you trying to say?"

I love how you guys insult and swear constantly and then want people to reply as though you're being civil.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't owe you an explanation. Not when you talk to me like that.

eli said...

You're kidding, right? Seriously, how old are you? You're going to take your ball and go home because the big meanie is being naughty to you?

Sorry but give me a fucking break. If I thought for one second that I knew the truth behind the violent deaths of 3,000 of my countrymen - and it wasn't what everybody thought it was - it'd take a lot more than "what the fuck are you talking about" to keep me from explaining it.

Defend your thesis, son. This is how the real world works. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Justin Martell said...

You see, Eli. I don't owe you any sort of explanation. I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not going to get into a huge debate in the comments section of an obscure blog. I have challenged Metz to a debate. If he declines, then I'd be glad to debate you or someone else in a public forum.

So come on, Mikey! Get on with it! Are we going to do this or not?

eli said...

So you want attention, but edification is of no concern to you? You're ok with Bush/Illuminati/NWO/whoever your personal boogeyman is getting away with this? You don't want to explain why you're right and we're wrong so we join you? Don't you need soldiers in the coming revolution? Comrades, at least? Or are you going to suspend the revolution because some people think you're a bit of a penis and aren't afraid to tell you?

You need to step back away from this situation and look at it objectively, then you might see why you're not being taken seriously. I'm still willing to give you chance because I'm one hell of a nice guy. Answer my questions. I'll convert if you can back up your claims with facts and solid evidence - and if you can't then you might as well convert. Either way one of us learned something and we're both happy, right?

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justine martel will NEVER be happy...

His supply of axes to grind is neverending...

"I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not going to get into a huge debate in the comments section of an obscure blog"

THEN GET THE FUCK OFF THE BLOG YOU AMBULATING TURD!

Anonymous said...

Sounds like Metz is bitching out. All the minions on here won't be able to cover and make excuses for their brave leader :)

eli said...

"Sounds like Metz is bitching out. All the minions on here won't be able to cover and make excuses for their brave leader :)"

Sounds like justin martell cannot defend his unfounded beliefs or stand up to the minimum of examination and started posting anonymously.

Debate occurs between two professionals who have legitimate, adult differences of opinion. Justin Martell is a child with no relevant knowledge or experience who has nothing to say. Not to insult Mikey but I'm sure he would be willing to admit he's no expert either. This "Debate" would be pointless repetition of ideas heard elsewhere. What's the use? How will this advance troother/realist relations? It won't.

All you want is attention and to scream your unfounded opinions as facts, justin. Call us after you've spent a few years growing up. And if you want to debate, call us after you get an education.

By the way, here's a little sidenote for you that occurred to me this morning:

You troothbots are always saying "do your research." Do you know what that phrase means in the adult world? It means get your PhD. I.e., "where did you do your research at?" means "what school did you get your PhD from?"

Just another illustration of how clueless and detached from the real world you nuts are.

Justin Martell said...

I am not posting anonymously. I'm not a coward like Mikey Metz. Just because I don't want to debate you here, Eli, does not mean I won't debate you at all. Since Metz has clearly ran I'd like to invite anyone on here to take part in a radio debate. Anyone? I hope you when you accept you don't fake accept like Metz and the run citing that your feelings were hurt. Metz is nothing but a disingenuous slime.

As I've said before, only in the world of the "debunkers" can the one who put forth the debate challenged be spun to be the coward. You guys are pathetic.

Justin Martell said...

"THEN GET THE FUCK OFF THE BLOG YOU AMBULATING TURD!"

Again, you guys discredit yourselves endlessly. If you're on the side of evidence, research, and common sense, as you claim to be, then behave as such. This is what you guys are saying:

"You're a poopy head!"

I comment on the unscrupulous behavior.

"YOU'RE AN EVEN BIGGER POOPY HEAD!"

eli said...

justin, what can you bring to the debate that hasn't already been said? Have you done original research into 9/11? Are you an expert in a relevant field? Are you a master orator or logician? Do you have information not freely available elsewhere? Have you compiled information in an interesting and unique way that you would like to present?

Or do you want a soap box from which to baselessly shout "inside job! INSIDE JOB!"

What are your real motivations for wanting this debate?

Anonymous said...

"Again, you guys discredit yourselves endlessly. If you're on the side of evidence, research, and common sense, as you claim to be, then behave as such"

AND again I'm responding to a pile of feces who states:


"I don't know how many times I have to say that I'm not going to get into a huge debate in the comments section of an obscure blog"

How about a little one you steaming pile???

What a complete fucking loser!!!

Eric said...

Again, you guys discredit yourselves endlessly. If you're on the side of evidence, research, and common sense, as you claim to be, then behave as such. This is what you guys are saying:


Oh this is needed again I see.

/slap

I'm not sure at all how you can justify your continuing attitude and self righteous indignation. I personally find it quite hilarious that you refuse to engage in a debate while calling out others.

Basically Justin, everything I said about you being a moral and intellectual coward stands tall. You are afraid of honest debate in an open forum because you know that you will be slaughtered.

Perhaps its time to find a new hobby for yourself, and do as was suggested above.

Grow up Justin.

You're a joke. And it is no longer just me seeing you for what you are, it is everyone.

Justin Martell said...

"You're a joke. And it is no longer just me seeing you for what you are, it is everyone."

Many, many, words and none have changed the fact that it was Metz that bitched out, not I. You've all also completely ignored what I have said several times:

"Since Metz has clearly ran I'd like to invite anyone on here to take part in a radio debate."

I don't understand why I have to debate any of you here. This is not public and is only viewed by many people. If I will get slaughtered, as you say, then why not slaughter me in public?

Right, right, none of you will because I'm a "coward" and a "loser." Again, ONLY IN THE WORLD OF THE DEBUNKERS CAN THE ONE ASKING FOR A PUBLIC DEBATE BE SPUN TO LOOK LIKE THE COWARD.

Your pseudo-intellectual double speak and pitiful attempts at character assassination are so incredibly old.

Justin Martell said...

"What are your real motivations for wanting this debate?"

My motivations for this debate are simple. To have Mikey Metz put his money where his mouth is. He has not. Yet, somehow, I am the coward. Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

"This is not public"

Dumbfuck....

Go grind a different axe asshole.

eli said...

What a dodge. "To have Metz put his money where his mouth is" is not a motivation. Especially since, as far as I know, there is no money on the line.

What is your motivation, justin? Or do you not even know yourself? I get the impression you haven't given much thought to any of this.

By the way, what radio show do you have carte blanche to take over for your debate with any random person? Chances are if the host is going to let you do that he has fewer listeners than this blog has readers.

What is your real motivation, justin?

And what qualifies you to debate on this topic?

If you can't answer questions here why should we think you'll answer questions anywhere else? You come off as the type who will just talk or shout over your opponent.

Eric said...

Many, many, words and none have changed the fact that it was Metz that bitched out, not I. You've all also completely ignored what I have said several times:


Ahh it is you that has bitched out like a little coward, morally, intellectually Justin. You hide behind people who lost loved ones, you wave your little flag of morality not even realizing that it is a sad shrivelled thing that only makes you more of a hypocrit. You are a child


"Since Metz has clearly ran I'd like to invite anyone on here to take part in a radio debate."

You do that. Except I say lets try to get on the Opie and Anthony show how about that?


I don't understand why I have to debate any of you here.

Because it would show you to not be the coward I so aptly named you to be. Because this is where you have been called out at.


This is not public and is only viewed by many people.

This statement is contradictory. I imagine you forgot a SO in there but in either regard it is still contradictory. if its not public then it is private and can only be viewed by a select few.

If I will get slaughtered,

As you have been.

as you say, then why not slaughter me in public?

Sure :) You do that again ~_^

Right, right, none of you will because I'm a "coward" and a "loser."

Who said none of us will :)

Again, ONLY IN THE WORLD OF THE DEBUNKERS CAN THE ONE ASKING FOR A PUBLIC DEBATE BE SPUN TO LOOK LIKE THE COWARD.

You are the one avoiding it there. :) Only in the world of the cowardly can someone be called out and fail to respond and then try to hide behind it not being a 'public' forum. Last time I checked there is no one here limiting access to it, it is not hidden, it is not private. In fact the last time I checked the Web was one of the most unregulated forums out there.

Why is it that you are scared of the web Justin ?

Your pseudo-intellectual double speak and pitiful attempts at character assassination are so incredibly old.

Because they are so effective at painting you as the coward you are? Morally, intellectually, you are being skewered, not for your views, but because you have failed to even respond to anyone other then to say, 'nuh uh I am not going to debate you!'

/slap
/slap
/slap

The reason they are getting so old is because you havent changed a whit since the beginning of your little rants. You remain... as always... a coward, and I now add one more.

A child.

Justin Martell said...

Oh yeah, we haven't heard from Metz in almost a month and I'm the coward. Pleaaaaaassssee...

Metz is the coward, you're all apologist charlatans.

For the third time now, if any of you want to do the radio debate then send me an email. I'm done wasting my time over here.

eli said...

justin, I thought you didn't like name-calling? You're sure quick to call names yourself.

Shockingly, though, you bring up a good point . . . Yo Mikey, I knew the "updates every day" claim was stretching it, but I didn't think you'd leave us hanging for a month. What's up?

Eric said...

Apologist Charlatans

*eyeroll*

And you Justin are nothing but a coward, you ran away from just a simple debate to see if you could actually live up to one on the air. But you could not even do that could you Justin? And I would like to point out that I did accept your 'challenge' about having one on the air, though certainly not at a radio station of your choosing.

Tom said...

So Justin has time to debate yet he claims he "really doesn't have time" to answer even one question that I asked him. Here is my e-mail to Justin

This is his e-mail to me in response to my e-mail

Anonymous said...

martel is a slack jawed pussy - nothing more - nothing less. I won't debate his punk ass because I'm not sure I wouldn't snap his little head off 2 minutes into it.

Little dirtbag fuckwads like justine are pure entertainment. I love when that asshole posts - it just makes the rest of planet look smarter.

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Eric said...

Apparently Justin Martell places a lot of weight in David Ray Griffin's refutation of the NIST.

Lets see here take the word of a guy with a doctorate in the history of science.... or take the studies of 30+ engineers.

Tough choice.

It certainly speaks to the lack of credibility that Martell has.

eli said...

David Ray Griffin has never studied science. His doctorate is in theology. Well, I guess if you wanted to play word games you could call theology the science of bullshit. Whatever blows your hair back.

Anonymous said...

Why is Mike a coward? What makes Mikey Run?

SR

Eric said...

Why not ask the same of Justin who could not even bring himself to answer a few simple questions.

Why oh why do the little sheep run.... oh well.. Justin Martell... coward :)

Now shown to all.

Anonymous said...

The 'Why' is because Justin agreed to debate Mikey. Not Eric 'Whoever'. Eric's cries of 'coward' ring hollow as a result. This is not 'code duello'... one need not accept a coward's 'second'....

Eric said...

*pats Anonymous*

I wonder why it is that Justin ran away... and why an anonymous nobody is defending him.

Why Justin even challenged me to a debate, but he didnt seem to like my choice of venues for some reason.

How bizarre.

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