Saturday, February 2, 2008

Why We Fight

This is in response to Diane from the Loose Change forums:

What motivates you to spend so much time defending the official story? Why is this personally important to you?

On both sides, I've noticed a tendency to perceive the other side as dishonest or worse. Perhaps if we understood each other's feelings and motives better, we might be less inclined to assume the worst about each other?

Well first off, I don't support any "official story," I support the mountains of evidence in favor of what actually happened on 9/11: 19 Arab highjackers took over planes with boxcutters and caught America with its pants down.

I think this person's question illustrates the fact that troofers can't comprehend simple disagreement with their CTs. If you don't agree with them, you obviously haven't done your "research." If you're so interested in finding out the motives of debunkers, I must ask you to rejoin us in the real world for a moment. Let's just assume that the "official theory" is the most accurate description of events.

In this case, the 9/11 Troofers:

-- Accuse several innocent people in the mass murder of 3,000 Americans
-- Give Muslim extremists a complete pass
-- Give the rest of the world more reason to hate America
-- Give Americans more reason to despise their government
-- Piss on the graves of the 9/11 victims (i.e. Passengers on Flight 93)
-- Rewrite history to suit your "blame America first" political agenda
(Imagine those high school history students googling 9/11 for a paper, and thinking your CTs are the real deal.)

These are things that rational people consider before throwing out kooky CTs with little to no evidence. Truthers may have their right to free speech, but it doesn't mean your views can't be challenged. I'm sure this explains, more or less, why debunkers do what they do.

Why do I do it? To try to encourage those who sit on the fence or who are even actively involved to stop wasting their time. I spent over a year of my life dedicated to these CTs, and I can't tell you how many nights I wish I could have back, where I was stressing over "not doing enough for the movement." Luckily for me, I realized it was all a farce before any permanent damage was done. I know others who are not that lucky, and have already began to throw away their lives completely in the name of these CTs.

So there you have it. You can go back into your fantasy world now, or you can challenge yourself intellectually and stay here in reality with the rest of us.

UPDATE 2/03 1:36AM: I decided to be fair and post this on the Loose Change forum, and within a couple of hours I was banned. Apparently the above post was too real for the troofers, I guess. Haha, so much for "freedom of speech."


Eli said...

For me it's mostly stuff you've already nailed, but I'll reiterate:

-Passion for truth (I would have a lot more respect for the Trooth if they didn't blatantly LIE so much. Opinions are ok, but stop manipulating and creating evidence to support them!)

-Not wanting the rest of the world to hate us for something we didn't do

-Not wanting innocent people blamed in the murder of 3,000 civillians to the tune of exonerating the guilty

-A desire for future generations to see history how it happened, not how a psychotic fringe group with anti-government agendas wants them to think it happened.

-The Trooth blows right past all the real reasons to dislike the Bush admin and goes right to the fantasies. They undermine my educated, well-read disgust for these clowns by puking their conspiracies everywhere. If I was on the fence politically, the Trooth would definitely make me sympathize with Republicans, or as Rolling Stone said, "I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up 5 votes."

What should disturb anyone reading Diane's post is, why is the truth NOT personally important to her (and Troothers in general)?

nicepants said...

You nailed it. In fact, you hit everything so dead on, so close-to-home for the truthers, one of the "king idiots" (Gideon524) banned you from LCF for making that very post. So much for the "new rules" over there, eh? (Don't feel bad, I broke no rules and was also banned....I guess it's business as usual at LCF.)

I "fight" the truthers because their lack of respect for logical thinking and intelligent thought is so extreme, I find myself wondering how someone like that could actually function in life. It's a combination of curiosity of their though processes and a disgust for ignorance and stupidity.

I was on the fence when I first started researching 9/11 (as any skeptic would be), but after looking at the information, it was easy to see which theories had the facts, and which theories simply relied upon paranoid conjecture, logical fallacies, and double standards.

The title "truther" is itself a contradiction....the truth is the last thing these people want. Their true motivation is what fascinates me.

Josh said...

I do it because I care about what's true. It's really that simple.

I doubt I'll sway a lot of people from the conspiracy theories anyway; that takes a while to do, and it takes more than one encounter between a 'truther' and a non-truther to actually do that. But I'm sure there are lots of fence-sitters who weren't sure at first, but see things a bit more reasonably after hearing what the skeptics say. I was a fence sitter at first myself, in fact.

Jack said...

We have to remember that there is no "official" story, but a PUBLIC story. The public told the government what happened on 9/11: Airline stewardesses, aviation flight instructors, hotel managers, firefighters, policemen, tens of thousands of eyewitnesses who saw what happened, airline pilots from other aircraft who overheard the voice-activated (automatic) radio transmissions from the hijacked aircraft, the rental car companies who rented the cars to the hijackers (which were found with Al Qaeda literature, Boeing 757 manuals, martial arts manuals, etc.), the baggage handler who found Mohammed Atta's suitcase that missed the connection in Boston, air traffic controllers, etc., etc.

These private citizens or local government employees told the Federal government what happened.

There is a public story, no "official" story.

And don't forget the medical examiners and coroners from NYC and Arlington, Virginia who found the body parts of the hijackers in the rubble, tested by DNA.

Anonymous said...

Man, I wish you the best. It pains me how many people I know are still completely caught up in this. Luckily I got out of the conspiracy crowd before 9/11 happened. I was one of those people that thought that President Clinton was going to declare martial law over Y2K, arrest all the "patriots" and take them to camps... oh man. Just so much crap.

Life is a beautiful thing, you can make it anything you want. Living a life of fear and paranoia is such a sad choice to make.


"You tell me it's the institution.. well you know, you better free your mind instead."

Eli said...

Excellent post, Jack.

Anonymous . . . my friend's uncle was the same way. He believed all the y2k, martial law, dictator Clinton hype. He seemed to let go when none of it happened, but I often wonder how he feels about 9/11 now. I haven't talked to him in years and we live in different states now so unfortunately I haven't been able to ask him.

Anonymous said...

"I support the mountains of evidence in favor of what actually happened on 9/11: 19 Arab highjackers took over planes with boxcutters and caught America with its pants down."

Can one of you clowns please post a list of the evidence which supports 19 crazy guys from the caves did 9/11?
Thanks! I'm sure I'll get an extensive list right away ;)

Josh said...

"Can one of you clowns please post a list of the evidence which supports 19 crazy guys from the caves did 9/11?"


Before one of us goes to the trouble of writing you up a list, you need to come to terms with the fact that these 19 guys weren't crazy; they were acting in a calculated manner which was rational within their political and religious views of the world, and they were not 'from the caves'; many of them were educated, middle class Saudis working within a terrorist group that was well funded and sophisticated enough to pull of numerous terrorist activities before 9/11.

If you are willing to come to terms with this, then maybe some of our evidence will actually start to make sense to you.

Boris Epstein said...


What makes you believe that those who have an opinion different from yours necessarily have ulterior motives? I could say that it is you who is pissing on the graves of 9/11 dead by trying to deny a true investigation into what killed them. I am not going to say that because I don't use your faulty logic, of course - I am just bringing that up to show you how faulty your logic is.

Boris Epstein said...

There is a public story, no "official" story.

Well, Jack, as a member of the public allow me to tell you a drastically different story... That, by the way, is backed by evidence and not ideology/emotions.

eli said...

boris, you're kidding yourself and/or kidding us and/or lying and/or delusional if you think the trooth movement is backed by evidence and not ideology and emotions. Seriously. Defend that statement. Kids will learn about you in school one day if you can prove there was an inside job. You'll be famous. You'll be a national hero that opened the public's eyes and freed us from our bonds. What's holding you back?

Eric said...

Boris, so you were there? You have eye witnesses account? You were part of the investigating team? First responders?

Which part were you at ? Which bit of the first response were you there on?

Hummm... oh please please tell me so much about your 'public' story so we can know how you personally contributed to it.

Oh wait.... you mean... you're a guy behind a computer? Who was never there and really isn't part of a public story?

The twoof movement is not backed up by facts or evidence or even by investigative groups. It is instead backed up by psuedo science, mis quotes, cherry picked data, and intentional mis representations of things people say.

Search Engine Optimization said...

Aside from the complex physical connections that make up its infrastructure, the Internet is facilitated by bi- or multi-lateral commercial contracts (e.g., peering agreements), and by technical specifications or protocols that describe how to exchange data over the network. Indeed, the Internet is essentially defined by its interconnections and routing policies.

As of December 30, 2007, 1.319 billion people use the Internet according to Internet World Stats. Writing in the Harvard International Review, philosopher N.J. Slabbert, a writer on policy issues for the Washington, D.C.–based Urban Land Institute, has asserted that the Internet is fast becoming a basic feature of global civilization, so that what has traditionally been called "civil society" is now becoming identical with information technology society as defined by Internet use. - web design company, web designer, web design india

Matt said...

Piss on the graves of the 9/11 victims (i.e. Passengers on Flight 93)

That's a low comment no matter what side of the debate your on.

Anonymous said...

^and yet it's true...

Anonymous said...

Man, Direct Ban ...

So much for the so called will to debate of the troofers

dfadf said...

The Tax Return Crack-Up<2>
I was not shocked because this was old news -- practically ancient, in fact. In R. Microsoft Office Emmett Tyrrell, Office 2010 Jr.'s most recent book The Clinton Microsoft Office 2010 Crack-
Up, page fiv Office 2007 e, paragraph two, we learn that in Bill Clinton's "first four years out of the White H Microsoft Office 2007 ouse, he ea Office 2010 key rned over Office 2010 download $43 million Office 2010 Professional after
expenses... Microsoft outlook "
The next Outlook 2010 page directs Windows 7 us to Appendix Microsoft outlook 2010 I, a list of the conniving couple's fees for speeches and book royalties and other income. The first